Catastrophic Transmission Failure

[Txclassic]

Still love my Triumph - - But trust is an issue

Over the last 24 hours, one recurring thought comes to mind - - - I love my Rocket and will stick by her, even though she let me down yesterday. Every time I ride and see the cookie cutter bikes and the same old sounding Harleys, I have so much pride in my beautiful black and red classic. There is no other bike I can think of that would give me that much enjoyment, even after considering the other popular big cruisers. There is something to be said for standing out from the crowd. Even the Boss Hoss' are no longer unique.

How many of us have been to a rally with over 1000 bikes and find that one other Rocket in the midst of mediocrity? It feels like you found a long lost cousin. I ride for the freedom and independence it gives me. I ride a Rocket because we are special.

We will patch her back up and live to ride another day. How fortunate I was to have arrived home safely. It's very disconcerting to think I could have been in BFE with no cell service and 10 miles from the nearest phone. Many of my rides lately have been in some very remote but beautiful country. The next time I go riding, it will be quite some time before she earns my complete trust again. Little noises and glitches will get immediate attention. I plan to invest in an extended warranty as well.

These failures are rare. I don't think anyone has had the dubious honor of cratering an engine casing yet. Hopefully, Triumph will come through and we will have a long riding relationship.

I'll keep everyone posted as things develop and maybe even get some pics from the dealer during teardown.

 

[travelguy]

feel the same way tx... sht does happen... buddy just got back from his place way down in mexico on his yamaha royal star. coming back by mexicali , 115 degree heat and no cell service ,bike dies out. he lets it sit thinking he is major screwed, out of water, middle of no where, no shade etc. starts bike and as long as he keeps it under 40 it runs .. anything above it dies out and he has to let it sit. gets home 10 hours later .. turns out they put fuel filter in upside down. cone inside broke off and was blocking all but a little gas from flowing. if it's made by man it will fail. you just dont know what or when. me im doing the extended warranty cuz i just love this thing.

 

[bigern2300]

IMO, The design and components of the Rocket engine and drivetrain are of the upmost quality. The problem lies in the quality of assembly by human hands. I've kinda keep this opinon to myself since the days when i had to tear mine down to fix the tranny problem i had created for myself.
When i had my cases apart, i recongized several quality control issues that were small, but that could lead to major failue down the road. Bolts not tighten properly, nuts designed to be staked in a certain area to help lock them in place, were staked elsewhere. And of course, the open sided output bearing that has been installed backward on so many motors resulting in oil starvation and failure for that bearing.
The bike is made up of very quality parts...it's the human hand that is screwing it all up! Bigern

 

[greenbaron]

>>>>Some other long standing symptoms I remember - - When you downshift to second or first, does anyone notice the bike lurches even with the clutch pulled in? I have had that issue since the bike was new. Also when upshifting, it seems second gear always feathered the clutch a little different than the other gears. With 2nd gear, you have to let the clutch out a little further to get engagement versus the other gears.

Listen, don't take this the wrong way, but did she really let you down? You were having issues for 12K miles - I mean, what did the dealer say about that when you had the bike in for its 500/1000 check-up? Lurching with the clutch engaged? All this talk of trust and stuff I guess has got me thinkin'... have there really been that many occurences of catastrophic failures without some warning signs as a prelude? I haven't been hanging here long, but I've got plenty of miles on both my Triumphs, and I've never had a catastrophic failure. The RIII has never done anything to put trust in doubt, but I did have a "failure" of the electronic kind with the Legend... even though one cylinder wasn't firing, I still made the 'nother couple hundred miles to home and after the chip replacement have had loads of miles trouble free on that scooter. I join the others in saying I'm relieved for you that you had no injury resulting from this! But if anything you should trust her more for sparing you! For my part, I won't lose trust until I'm stuck on the side of the road somewhere - I won't believe it could happen 'til then!

 

[Gunshots]

If you just think about the number of posters here that are pushing the envelope with addition of high performance parts super/turbo charge, nitrous, cams, etc. and for the most part the only parts that are letting them down art the aftermarket parts. If you can take this block and without major renovations turn up the wick to close to 300 hp without any more original parts failing, it does say a lot for the enginering done at the beginning. Again its the human element that becomes the factor. I take great pride in wheeling my Rocket up to the front door at the local HD hangout. I loved my Suzuki 1500LC but never had that confidinace of having the baddest bike in town like I get with the Rocket. The best part is knowing that I have an extra $10k in my wallet too! now just where the hell did that go anyway

 

[Sidecar Flip]

The best part is knowing that I have an extra $10k in my wallet too! now just where the hell did that go anyway

Jennifer got it..............................

 

[Txclassic]

Update

Talked to British-USA this morning. It will be quite some time before they can even touch my bike. They have 5 Rockets in the shop right now. Two with transmission problems, 1 with the output shaft bearing replacement and 2 with regular service. (Are any of you guys on this forum?). They estimate at least 6 weeks before they can even begin work. It will be picked up at my house tomorrow by a local motorcycle rescue service and taken directly to the dealer. This officially starts the warranty claim process within my 2 year warranty period, which expires June 27, 2008. (Another thing to be thankful for).

When I said that there is a hole in the engine casing, the dealer said they won't even try to fix that. The engine would have to go to Triumph. My response - - Newnan or UK? They think Newnan, but can't be positive yet.

Suffice it to say, the 2008 riding season is a bust. Suppose teardown begins 2nd week of August. If it goes to Newnan, guess 6-8 weeks minimum for rebuild and return. Then 2-3 weeks reassembly in Houston. That puts it around November for return to flight.

One way to look at it is the engine is going to get evaluated by the factory. Nothing against the techs at my dealer, but the factory should know everything to check and may catch something overlooked elsewhere.

If I was asked to repair this motor for someone else, I would do nothing less than a complete top-to-bottom teardown, magnaflux the crank, countershaft, and journal surfaces, inspect cam bearings, check clearances and runout, inspect the oil pumps, cylinders for scoring, compression check, clutch check, and bearing inspection. But I'm not a Triumph tech. and am speaking well outside my knowledge. That's just basic stuff from other engine rebuilds I've done.

>>>>>Listen, don't take this the wrong way, but did she really let you down?
Good point greenbaron. From the perspective that she got me home safe and in one piece, then there is absolutely much to be thankful for. It's one tough machine to keep turning through all the damage. Never lost oil pressure and sounds good in neutral. Don't forget to give credit the Almighty for His protection.

>>>>>You were having issues for 12K miles - I mean, what did the dealer say about that when you had the bike in for its 500/1000 check-up?
I mentioned it to the dealer at every service. His response was that the transmission needs time to break-in. My first service was at 499 miles with no issues noted. The second service was performed at 6883 miles. Significant valve shim adjustment and cam chain tension adjustment were required. In hindsight, doing the service a little early in the mileage was justified by the amount of shim adjustment. By that point, I had learned how to consistently get it into 1st gear every time. (Idle in neutral, pull in clutch, tap it down, little clunk and slight lurch). Mentioned this at service time and also the 2 times it jumped out of second under hard acceleration. Could not be duplicated on test drive after service. It's only during the last 2 weeks that the second gear problem has become consistent, requiring me to baby it on the last two excursions.

Several accounts from the forums tended to confirm the tractor-like nature of the Rocket tranny and the difficulty getting into 1st. There are many reports of the clunking phenomenon smoothing out after about 10,000 miles. I'm just getting through 12,000 miles, so other than the 2nd gear issue, there's plenty of reinforcement that says this is "nature of the beast". It's only in the last couple of months I've noticed more frequent postings of the 2nd gear issue.

True - - There were warning signs, and in fact my plan was to take it to the dealer today to have the problem fully investigated. Things just didn't work out that way. I regret taking it out Sunday.

Better pics attached on the casing breach. You can see something sticking through the hole. Don't know if it's a shifter fork or gear tooth.

This is going to be a long process and I'm trying to be optimistic and patient. Good documentation and letting the warranty process run its course are the first steps.

I thank everyone for their concern. It's very reassuring to know there is such great support when things go wrong.

 

[TxRIIIRider]

Shoot, with a hole in the case, I would think it would be less expensive all the way around if Triumph sent your dealer a complete replacement engine. They pull your engine, swap in the new one and send you on your way. Then send your grenaded case to Triumph for inspection. They would save in labor alone, much less parts, etc.

But, I'm sure they have their reasons...

 

[greenbaron]

I mentioned it to the dealer at every service. His response was that the transmission needs time to break-in.

Could not be duplicated on test drive after service.

Wow, that's a helluva long time to wait, especially if they're justing pulling the whole deal to send off to factory! You have a better attitude than me, in being patient with this dealer who assured you previously that everything was normal... so I take it since they couldn't duplicate, they just didn't believe you on the 'coming out of gear deal'? I mean they didn't really think it was OK, did they? nice...
Yea, I had the difficulties in getting it into first gear from nuetral and they do work out with mileage. It was never more of a problem than pulling in the clutch an extra time, though. But I sure never had the thing come out of gear in motion, and I just can't see how any mechanic would say that was OK... I will have to search on these posts you mention to see what others have experienced, and try not to get paranoid with mine (anybody develop this trouble after 20K miles ).
I guess there's no real incentive for a dealer to act quickly when a warranty issue walks in their front door... it shouldn't be that way in a serrvice oriented business, and I have to admit I'd be less gracious about accepting it than you are being... so, props to you for that, since I'm sure yours is the better approach (I would probably just blow a few gaskets, and still be waiting) and best of luck for better news to come
:bch:

p.s. the pictures are painfully clear, wow.

 

[Baggage1]

My 1st Rocket was ridden hard sometimes and my attitude was to brake it before the 2 years was up then get another one. I'm treating this one just a little better on the break in side and now just letting her breath some with 3 grand on her. If something isn't put together as designed nothing one does can change the outcome as it becomes just a matter of time and to think that one nation over another in terms of human nature is different is denying reality. Standing by your belief in the product is the consideration that companies realize makes or breaks them. I'm sorry for your trouble Txclassic as this is a unique result of a problem they will address thoroughly in house I'm sure where they can do something to correct it we hope, for them and us.