Another none starter

[CanberraR3]

Welcome Baz. Try just replacing the bolts that connect the cables to your battery terminals with new ones. Solved a similar problem for me a couple of years ago. Good idea to check the connection at the starter motor as well. You never know....

 

[Bedifferent]

The battery is showing....12.69 on the
multimeter

A battery showing 12.69 volts represents a full charge.

12.5 85%
12.4 65%
12.3 50%
12.2 35%

Anything less than that consider it drained. With that said the only true test of a battery is testing it with a tester that can put a proper load on it. Voltage only is not a perfect test

I have read over this forum and from my own past experience with electronics the first thing is to get an accurate load test on that battery regardless of how new it is. Second, I would unbolt and clean each of the terminal ends coming from the battery. Both ends, not just the battery post ends. Next, I would pull each of the fuses, in particular the 30 amp and fuses greater than ten amps, and make sure the terminals are clean. I would work a fuse in and out of each the terminal locations several times using a small amount of contact cleaner on the connections during the process. Scuff those connections. An auto breaking type ATC fuse works best for this because it is longer and easier to hang on to. $7.00 at the auto parts store. After that I would start looking at the ignition switch, switch connections, relays and last but not least the starter. Always work from simple to complex when troubleshooting a problem. A heavier ground cable could be in order, but keep in mind your cables are crimped on the end and not soldered. Any crimp connection can develop a poor connection and high resistance over time. Especially if you live in a damp or salty climate. I use a OptiMate TS120 battery and charging system tester on my bike to give me a "general indication" of the battery voltage drop when starting my bike. All of this is a good place to start.

 

[baz]

A battery showing 12.69 volts represents a full charge.

12.5 85%
12.4 65%
12.3 50%
12.2 35%

Anything less than that consider it drained. With that said the only true test of a battery is testing it with a tester that can put a proper load on it. Voltage only is not a perfect test

I have read over this forum and from my own past experience with electronics the first thing is to get an accurate load test on that battery regardless of how new it is. Second, I would unbolt and clean each of the terminal ends coming from the battery. Both ends, not just the battery post ends. Next, I would pull each of the fuses, in particular the 30 amp and fuses greater than ten amps, and make sure the terminals are clean. I would work a fuse in and out of each the terminal locations several times using a small amount of contact cleaner on the connections during the process. Scuff those connections. An auto breaking type ATC fuse works best for this because it is longer and easier to hang on to. $7.00 at the auto parts store. After that I would start looking at the ignition switch, switch connections, relays and last but not least the starter. Always work from simple to complex when troubleshooting a problem. A heavier ground cable could be in order, but keep in mind your cables are crimped on the end and not soldered. Any crimp connection can develop a poor connection and high resistance over time. Especially if you live in a damp or salty climate. I use a OptiMate TS120 battery and charging system tester on my bike to give me a "general indication" of the battery voltage drop when starting my bike. All of this is a good place to start.

wow that's a tutorial right there...Thank you

 

[TOMCAT]

Baz check your fuses really carefully. Had one blow a couple of weeks ago and dammed if i could see it .. only detected with a test light.

 

[TriumPhil]

baz, it sounds to me like the prior owner of your Beast installed a Rivco Ignition Relocation Kit. That would account for both the hole in place of where it used to be, at the top of your triple tree, behind the headlights and between your speedo and tach and the new (and, IMHO, better) location in front of the frame and left hand sidecover. This is a good thing and it indicates that your problem is probably not related to Triumph's known, faulty OEM ignition.

Sometimes, electrical faults, caused by such things as loose battery terminal connectors or blown fuses, can cause the ECU to lock out, in which case you cannot turn the motor over through the battery without resetting the ECU. If there are any accessories wired directly to your positive battery post remove them for now as you perform the following:


I would hee all of the good advice/recommendations given here about first checking and, if necessary correcting the simplest, most obvious things that might be causing your failure to ignite (turn over the motor via the battery). Then, and only then, as the last item to do before attempting ignition, disconnect both the positive and negative battery cables and reconnect them after a brief wait (5-10 minutes should do it, I think). That should restore and reset the ECU to its original factory default setting and barring any other unseen or unknown electrical gremlins, it may just do the trick and allow your motor to start.

Basically, the inability to start the big girl can be as simple as the ECU having locked itself in order to prevent any further damage being done by an errant, but simple, electrical system problem. That happened to me last year and although I tried a compression start, checked the starter motor and attempted jumping the battery from 4 different commercial vehicles, it was a no go until I reset the ECU.

An afterthought:

For me, the simplest thing you could try before everything posted above is a jumpstart from a decent sized, healthy car battery. Of course, connect the jumper cables to your Rocket with the car's motor off. Then turn the car on and attempt ignition on the bike. I've jumped my original battery many times this way without causing any harm at all. If all other electrics (instrument sweep, lights, indicators, etc.) fail to work after attempting a jump, then the ECU has locked out for sure!

 

[Joesmoe]

The factory ground wire is not heavy enough even on the newer models. I would check all of your connections and think about changing out the ground wire to one that is heavier (larger gauge wire)

I do all my own wiring in the house. Code here requires 14ga/120V - I install 12 ga for margin (and 20A circuits in place of 15A circuits).

So I'm intrigued -- "not heavy enough even on newer models" -- pray tell -- what's on there now, and to what should I change it -- and do you have a recommended source ?

I'm a huge fan of W. Edward Demming and his philosophy of incremental improvement. Some of you may be old enough to remember the law suits against Chrysler when they started outsourcing parts of their popular Caravan, and at one point, were splitting production of transmissions between a factory in Japan and one in the US. After a couple of years, enterprising owners (and they had to be, as this pre-dated the internet) realized that the failure rates of American transmissions was far higher than the made-in-Japan ones, and the lawsuits were intended to force Chrysler to replace all the American-made transmissions with the better ones from Japan. Not long after that, the unthinkable happened: Toyota outsold GM.

That's a long way from -- but not so far from -- those of you who have incrementally made a special machine, great, and shared with us enough to follow your hallowed footsteps.

Oh yeah, the ground wire please ?

Thank you.

 

[Gregger]

Just to add to the mix, you stated that the battery voltage is 12.69. What is the voltage across the battery when you depress the starter button and the bike "tries to start". If the voltage drops considerably (to 9 vote or lower) and the bike hardly turns over, you probably have a starter issue and it is overdrawing. This is predicated on the battery being healthy. If the voltage stays around 12.69 when you hit the starter, then you probably have a bad connection. One item not mentioned is the starter solenoid. If it is pitted due to arcing, you could have a connection problem there.

 

[Bedifferent]

Just to add to the mix, you stated that the battery voltage is 12.69. What is the voltage across the battery when you depress the starter button and the bike "tries to start". If the voltage drops considerably (to 9 vote or lower) and the bike hardly turns over, you probably have a starter issue and it is overdrawing. This is predicated on the battery being healthy. If the voltage stays around 12.69 when you hit the starter, then you probably have a bad connection. One item not mentioned is the starter solenoid. If it is pitted due to arcing, you could have a connection problem there.

My OptiMate shows a drop to 9 volts during cranking to be the lowest reading for a still acceptable battery under starting conditions. 8 volts and below gets into that gray area. The problem is, that is a difficult reading to catch with an analog or digital meter. The OptiMate actually holds that reading on the display for several seconds so you can read it while it also indicates charging voltage. I agree, no significant voltage drop indicates a bad connection and also warrants looking at the starter solenoid if you're having problems.

I have been running on the assumption that you are having a cranking speed issue. If the engine simply does not fire when it is turned over, that is a whole new batch of issues. I have not read enough nor seen proof that low voltage during startup would prevent your bike from firing as well. If jumping with a know good battery starts the bike as TriumPhil suggests, it is most likely a poor connection or battery issue. Access to spark and fuel indications is pretty tough to see with the way everything buried in the bike. A simple cheap neon test bulb held right next to a plug wire should indicate high voltage is present meaning you have spark. I use a small plastic tube to hold bulb keeping the leads separated or you can buy one of the cheap little neon tester you can find at the hardware store. 20,000 plus volts through the plug wires generates enough RF energy around the plug wire to light the bulb. As for fuel, I don't know of a simple way to check for that.

In any event, keep us informed as to what you find, so we can all better troubleshoot our beasts. By the way, all of these failure posts are scarring me about my new bike. I may have to stop reading the forum.

 

[TriumPhil]

C',mon, Bedifferent! Surely you're made of tougher stuff?

 

[Bedifferent]

C',mon, Bedifferent! Surely you're mad of tougher stuff?

Ok...I'll toughen up! I'll just have to be smarter than the machine and make sure I know how to fix everything on the fly. A good plan is better than no plan at all and I'm not sure I'm going to have enough room in my bags to carry all the spare parts. The scary part is....there isn't a Triumph Dealer on every corner should I have a problem. Of course, I knew that when I bought the beast.