Wow how theRocket Handles

Me too... @1olbull, where ya't?

Also how much further after the pegs first start dragging? I have a feeling you know that one not only mathematically, but by experience as well.

I have had the opportunity to ride many many motorcycles in my past. Mainly big big cruisers, except goldwing/Valkyrie :(. The next best handling big cruiser I've experienced is victory cross-country which has an amazing lean angle, well my 2012 R3R beats that! This guy has some general knowledge on the subject. I hope you green riders take advantage of this information. I know plenty of riders that thought they knew how to ride until they put proper effort into learning. Like parking lot practice. I was lucky, we had a free one near me in Florida. These guys who where drill team, and motorcycle cops would volunteer their time the help teach people solid ridding techniques. All you had to do was set your pride down and listen:cool:. This guy has great info.

 
Me too... @1olbull, where ya't?

Also how much further after the pegs first start dragging? I have a feeling you know that one not only mathematically, but by experience as well.

Sorta would depend on the brand and model of roaster. :rolleyes: :roll: :p
I have experienced when the pegs, now boards, rails, kickstand and engine cases drag, but I have no inclinometer aboard.
Nor have I measured the static lean angle (need help) . . . yet.
 
Sorta would depend on the brand and model of roaster. :rolleyes: :roll: :p
I have experienced when the pegs, now boards, rails, kickstand and engine cases drag, but I have no inclinometer aboard.
Nor have I measured the static lean angle (need help) . . . yet.

I know I'm curious. I imagine it's closer to 40° thanks to the 240mm.
 
I have had the opportunity to ride many many motorcycles in my past. Mainly big big cruisers, except goldwing/Valkyrie :(. The next best handling big cruiser I've experienced is victory cross-country which has an amazing lean angle, well my 2012 R3R beats that! This guy has some general knowledge on the subject. I hope you green riders take advantage of this information. I know plenty of riders that thought they knew how to ride until they put proper effort into learning. Like parking lot practice. I was lucky, we had a free one near me in Florida. These guys who where drill team, and motorcycle cops would volunteer their time the help teach people solid ridding techniques. All you had to do was set your pride down and listen:cool:. This guy has great info.


Good video! I like this guy and have seen other videos of his.
I do have an important correction. In my 50 years of investigating crashes, I have yet to see a dry level traveled public road surface with a static friction coefficient of 1.0 - 1.1. Many tests all around the world have been done over many years and the average level dry pavement friction coefficient is .75. An expert rider threshold emergency braking can attain close to, and sometimes greater than 1.0. This is not the same as cornering friction. Not talking about race track surfaces, or superelevation here - just your garden variety public dry level road surface.

f=F/W The coefficient of friction (f) is simply a ratio of the force (F) (needed to slide locked tires) divided by the weight (W) of the vehicle. If 3750 lbs of force is necessary to slide a 5000 lb vehicle, the friction value would be .75. Adding a "g" for gravity (32.2'/sec/sec) to this ratio turns the value into acceleration or deceleration since gravity is a force. Therefor, .75g is .75 X 32.2 = 24.15'/sec/sec, which is acceleration in the positive and deceleration in the negative.

The friction value of the road surface is not necessarily the same as g-force or lateral acceleration.
As a rider, when in hoon mode on a good clean road surface, I consider that .75 value as my friction threshold. I also am aware of the friction circle, which means any braking (especially trail) while in the curve decreases the available lateral road friction by the square root of the sum of the squares of the horizontal and lateral forces. Example: You are at a fair 30° lean, therefor your lateral acceleration is .70g (tan 30°). You trail brake slightly, developing .3g linear deceleration. Your available friction=sqrt/(.7 squared + .3 squared), or .76. You may be in trouble here!
Note that just a 5° reduction in lean (25°) reduces this to .47g. This is a .23g difference and with the same .3g trail braking you are at .56g and well within a safe margin.
As you reach the threshold of friction in a curve, remember that every extra angle of lean costs increasing more reduction in your available friction.
HTH
 
Good video! I like this guy and have seen other videos of his.
I do have an important correction. In my 50 years of investigating crashes, I have yet to see a dry level traveled public road surface with a static friction coefficient of 1.0 - 1.1. Many tests all around the world have been done over many years and the average level dry pavement friction coefficient is .75. An expert rider threshold emergency braking can attain close to, and sometimes greater than 1.0. This is not the same as cornering friction. Not talking about race track surfaces, or superelevation here - just your garden variety public dry level road surface.

f=F/W The coefficient of friction (f) is simply a ratio of the force (F) (needed to slide locked tires) divided by the weight (W) of the vehicle. If 3750 lbs of force is necessary to slide a 5000 lb vehicle, the friction value would be .75. Adding a "g" for gravity (32.2'/sec/sec) to this ratio turns the value into acceleration or deceleration since gravity is a force. Therefor, .75g is .75 X 32.2 = 24.15'/sec/sec, which is acceleration in the positive and deceleration in the negative.

The friction value of the road surface is not necessarily the same as g-force or lateral acceleration.
As a rider, when in hoon mode on a good clean road surface, I consider that .75 value as my friction threshold. I also am aware of the friction circle, which means any braking (especially trail) while in the curve decreases the available lateral road friction by the square root of the sum of the squares of the horizontal and lateral forces. Example: You are at a fair 30° lean, therefor your lateral acceleration is .70g (tan 30°). You trail brake slightly, developing .3g linear deceleration. Your available friction=sqrt/(.7 squared + .3 squared), or .76. You may be in trouble here!
Note that just a 5° reduction in lean (25°) reduces this to .47g. This is a .23g difference and with the same .3g trail braking you are at .56g and well within a safe margin.
As you reach the threshold of friction in a curve, remember that every extra angle of lean costs increasing more reduction in your available friction.
HTH

Great info! Although you may want to simplify some. Thats a dramatic difference between numbers, your version, and his. Obviously actual roads aren't ideal by any means. It seems to me your confusing the mix buy not debating in like terms. Intentional? Most Power Sports fans (rocket Captains) are familiar with the concept of a skid pad. I'm pretty sure it was explained that way for a reason. Also to help understand the relationship with lean angle. But I think I get your point. Effectively your saying we are lucky to see 75% of theoretical traction. Which definitely falls into, great common sense practice to me. One has no idea what they will find around the corner on the streets. I sincerely hope people understand that trail-braking is best use for very low speed maneuvering.

Can you use any of that expert knowledge and experience, to give us a ballpark max lean angle? My curiosity is unstoppable lol.

Oh and what is hoon mode?
 
@31moppie
@Journeyman28778
I measured the Standard boards on my R3R at 10" above pavement and 16" outboard from centerline of the rear tire.
Lots of variables here so this is static, not dynamic, and only a rough estimate.
Upright (lean angle 0°), passes from tire contact up to center mass (I estimated at 2').
As the bike leans the tire contact moves outboard toward the tread edge (chicken strip?).
For the sake of comparison I have used the center tire to CM reference for lean angle, which for my R3R is about 36°.
I also just discovered why I can't seem to rid my tire of those narrow chicken strips . . . :D

R3R Lean Angle.jpg
 
Great info! Although you may want to simplify some. Thats a dramatic difference between numbers, your version, and his. Obviously actual roads aren't ideal by any means. It seems to me your confusing the mix buy not debating in like terms. Intentional? Most Power Sports fans (rocket Captains) are familiar with the concept of a skid pad. I'm pretty sure it was explained that way for a reason. Also to help understand the relationship with lean angle. But I think I get your point. Effectively your saying we are lucky to see 75% of theoretical traction. Which definitely falls into, great common sense practice to me. One has no idea what they will find around the corner on the streets. I sincerely hope people understand that trail-braking is best use for very low speed maneuvering.
Can you use any of that expert knowledge and experience, to give us a ballpark max lean angle? My curiosity is unstoppable lol.
Oh and what is hoon mode?

The best of the pro racers develop over 1.0g, even 1.5g with 60° lean angles on factory motorcycles in curves on a track prepared for racing only and with the use of very special tires.
There is no way this is duplicated on a public roadway with an OEM motorcycle!
Clean, dry & level public roadways are going to be about a .75 friction value.

A Hoon is one who Fangs it!
"hooligan"
 
The best of the pro racers develop over 1.0g, even 1.5g with 60° lean angles on factory motorcycles in curves on a track prepared for racing only and with the use of very special tires.
There is no way this is duplicated on a public roadway with an OEM motorcycle!
Clean, dry & level public roadways are going to be about a .75 friction value.

A Hoon is one who Fangs it!
"hooligan"
Ahh hooligan lol got it.
 


Wait, somethings wrong here. The extreme angle you drew doesn't nearly match the picture I have in my head when the peg balls on my roadster just start to drag. I mean at that point the handlebar grips are mere inches from the pavement too, right? I mean, well, aren't they? ;)

I forgot if you said you were coming to Maggie Valley, but if so I'd sure like to follow you on a ride. You can have coffee while I catch up.

Good video. What I take away from all this is that in ideal conditions with good tires you can safely lean at least to where the pegs start scraping, even using @1olbull 's more conservative friction factor (I'm going with that- our roads here are definitely not ideal). This matches my instinct, but I have to say that when the pegs drag it is not music to my ears. My fears are gravel, a random oil spot, or getting too far beyond that lean angle where, as he mentioned, the dragging metal can start to lift the tire.
 
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