Working on an Intake project

[Claviger]

Files removed, will not fit, too tall, making changes new :/

 

[WyldCFH]

Looks awesome

 

[Claviger]

Don't like the bent runners, but will incorporate the improvements of the design in the next. Having serious issues with available space, there really ins't a lot to work with.

Doing a design with no airfilter would be incredibly easy, getting enough filter area is really the challenge.

 

[Paul Bryant]

Don't like the bent runners, but will incorporate the improvements of the design in the next. Having serious issues with available space, there really ins't a lot to work with.

Doing a design with no airfilter would be incredibly easy, getting enough filter area is really the challenge.

And isn't this what development work is like Rob.
You get some thing sorted and in your mind it's 100%.
But then you step back for a bit and look at it again, hmmm I can do this better ......

Re Having serious issues with available space, there really ins't a lot to work with. Tell me about it ! try the Exhaust side

 

[Claviger]

This should give you an idea of how loud my setup is. Camera is a GoPro Session 5 chin mounted, with no foam, so the wind noise is quite loud and you can clearly hear induction noise in the video. What's missing is any sort of exhaust noise, also missing to the rider in the saddle Full open element filter + stacks = not for the faint of heart.

 

[Claviger]

Wow, it's been a long time since I started thinking about this whole intake pulse tuning thing on the R3. Since I know my cam timing now, I was finally able to calculate runner lengths for various harmonic tuning points, here is the table:

Harmonic Lengths are in inches. Head + rubber connector is 4.75" already, my V-Stacks are 4.5", so when I get the TBs back I'll measure, but I think I may have ended up with something like 13.5", which is a little shorter than I ultimately will shoot for, at 20".

Now as a reminder here's my plot with my V-stacks.


Here we are with 4.5" less runner length:


To me, from 6500 and up, it looks to hold out torque a lot better, but also made more down low, so I think there is definitely validity to some people claiming v-stacks can boost power everywhere without costing you on the top if sized correctly.

 

[Speedy]

Glad to see you are back to posting on this project. Space is an issue as you have discovered. Therefore, twenty inch runner lengths may be difficult to accomplish without tight bends. However, you likely won't need that length. The chart you listed shows timing and resultant harmonics from valve event to valve event. What do you think happens while the intake valve is open? For one, the moving piston creates a continuously variable length and volume for that runner. Two, resonances from the exhaust system propagate all the way to the bell mouth of the runner during overlap. Third, resonances in the chamber connecting the runners has persistence, so they impact each intake runner. Four, throttle blade position affects density and runner velocity so depending on its position the resonances change. There are more but you get the idea. So while the chart is accurate, it is only about a third of the story. The pulsing in the intake system is very complicated and hard to predict.

Try to improve air flow by keeping things smooth and fairly straight; keep a taper in the system from bell mouth opening to valve throat which with printed stacks is easier to do; capture as much energy in the plenum as you can without sacrificing top end flow as it will add amplitude to the signal when in harmony with a runner resonance. Placement of the filter does impact how the plenum resonates but that impact varies from one type filter to another with resistance to airflow the variable. Which is why my system has the air filter at entry. My Thunderbird on the other hand has an internal filter.

With the high strength printing available now, consider printing new boots to connect the TB to the head. (An internal large cross section o'ring can seal the connection to the TB;s and one in the flange face seals to the head. A support structure and retainer completes the task. Doable as I have done it on a Daytona but using aluminum.) You might be able to move the TB rail out and point it upwards giving you more room.

Then when you think you have an ideal system, start working on internal plenum baffles. Tis quite an eye opener to see the impact they can have.

Caveat here, nothing works better than straight, correctly tapered and sized individual runners to make the most power at one rpm. So, if peak hp is your goal don't waste your time on developing alternate intake systems. If you want to fill holes in a torque curve or fatten it up or spread it out over a range of throttle positions and rpm's, you are headed in the right direction.

 

[warp9.9]

Glad to see you are back to posting on this project. Space is an issue as you have discovered. Therefore, twenty inch runner lengths may be difficult to accomplish without tight bends. However, you likely won't need that length. The chart you listed shows timing and resultant harmonics from valve event to valve event. What do you think happens while the intake valve is open? For one, the moving piston creates a continuously variable length and volume for that runner. Two, resonances from the exhaust system propagate all the way to the bell mouth of the runner during overlap. Third, resonances in the chamber connecting the runners has persistence, so they impact each intake runner. Four, throttle blade position affects density and runner velocity so depending on its position the resonances change. There are more but you get the idea. So while the chart is accurate, it is only about a third of the story. The pulsing in the intake system is very complicated and hard to predict.

Try to improve air flow by keeping things smooth and fairly straight; keep a taper in the system from bell mouth opening to valve throat which with printed stacks is easier to do; capture as much energy in the plenum as you can without sacrificing top end flow as it will add amplitude to the signal when in harmony with a runner resonance. Placement of the filter does impact how the plenum resonates but that impact varies from one type filter to another with resistance to airflow the variable. Which is why my system has the air filter at entry. My Thunderbird on the other hand has an internal filter.

With the high strength printing available now, consider printing new boots to connect the TB to the head. (An internal large cross section o'ring can seal the connection to the TB;s and one in the flange face seals to the head. A support structure and retainer completes the task. Doable as I have done it on a Daytona but using aluminum.) You might be able to move the TB rail out and point it upwards giving you more room.

Then when you think you have an ideal system, start working on internal plenum baffles. Tis quite an eye opener to see the impact they can have.

Caveat here, nothing works better than straight, correctly tapered and sized individual runners to make the most power at one rpm. So, if peak hp is your goal don't waste your time on developing alternate intake systems. If you want to fill holes in a torque curve or fatten it up or spread it out over a range of throttle positions and rpm's, you are headed in the right direction.

Love a good read !!!