To join the Dark Side or Not?

[warp9.9]

Love my Avon Cobra tires. Worth every penny.

I never thought there was a debate wether car tires were better than motorcycle tires. I thought the debate was wether the car tires were good/safe enough. The force for of friction is determined by several things : the tires coefficient of friction, the force pushing down, on a horizontal plane this is the weight of bike/car(mass x acceleration due to gravity). Size of contact patch. Tread pattern has a great affect on this. Tread is there to channel water away to prevent hydroplaning. A vehicles weight is directly proportional to its instance of hydroplaning,as well as speed. The tires with the highest coefficient of friction have no tread at all, drag racing tires have a coefficient of 4 , I believe.
You can't compare a car tires and motorcycles tires coefficient of friction and determine which is better. A lot of science goes into designing these tires, it should not be ignored. A tires rating wether it is a 30,000 tire or 40,000 is calculated using the tires coefficient of friction.

So the question is are car tires good/safe enough for your driving style? It is self evident which tires are the best.

:bch:
Man! This is the best, most level headed conversation I have seen regarding this interesting issue.

Great input, TMS!
I agree with you about what the debate SHOULD be about. Honestly, I think a CT can work on big cruiser bikes just fine as long as the rider doesn't push near the handling limits of the machine. These Rockets do not handle like most big cruisers, with the possible exception of a Goldwing. Before you scream at me, they DO HANDLE well.

My only issue just my opinion here is when a few make claims that a CT is superior to the tire designed for a MC. I just don't think the physics supports that contention and I shall just disagree until I see some scientific testing proving me wrong.

I sure agree that the friction values of the respective tires are apples & oranges. The biggest component may simply be the different designs, cross sections and applications, like one is not designed to lean. BTW - Mass X acceleration is momentum (F=MA - Newton's second law) and not a factor directly bearing on friction . . . I think.

Does anyone know what is involved in determining a tires coefficient of friction rating?
Tread compound - sidewall rating - aspect ratio - ???
1olbull

Ya the Avon was a hell of a step up from the metz for me except if you get a flat on the road. the Avon will sit on the rim were I was able to run alomost 10 miles to a gas station where my buddy brought me a plug kit on the metz due to the side wall being so thick and stiff. Hell it took 4 plugs just to get the metz to hold air so I could get home the avon left me sitting 155 mile from home. Which is where I first tried a car tire. It was a lot cheaper then paying a roll back tow truck to carry me home. SO I ran the tire for about 500 miles just to be fair and decided I did not like it. Of course part of it was I chose a 240 car tire where if I would heav went narrower it might not of wallered all over the road as much. Looked pretty cool though. Anyway could not keep air in it due to having to run it at the low air pressure not really a bother as after the metz failing out in no whereville I started carrying a plug kit and a compressor. I do not have any real tight twisties so cannot say anything about them as I am not very good with either tire. I did notice that curves I could run thru above 100 mph no handed with the MC tire I now had to wrestle with on the car tire. Being 145 pounds you had to force the bike to listen to you more where a larger feller probably does not have to work as hard. tried her at higher speeds like I run where ther is no numbers on the speedo definetly did not like the feeling of the controll up there so back to MC tire I went. Now if you like the cobra I think you should try the bridy on the back which is what I have right now bridy back and cobra front they work well together and at 4500 miles on the bridy she is still round even though I now am harder on tires since I figured out how to relly do good burnouts with her and 5 psi on the boost. Either from a dead stop or if I want to by just dropping a couple gears. I do want to try the bridgy and the Michelin commander II on the front 140/75/VR17 to see if it helps me in the curves and if the tread on the michelin last longer or not. Either way I will always run the bridgy now just because of how much longer it is lasting with the Millennium Falcon. As for the front well I'll have to wait and see if I do notlike the Michelin then back to the Avon it will be. I am also going to try the 130 and 240 ZR rated tires shinko makes becaus of the W rating and LSR rules. But will always run a MC tire unless another unfortunat thing happens on the road and its cheaper to buy a throw away car tire again verse the tow truck. I am not kicking the car tire its just not for me.

and Bull thanks but I was not realy trying to do anything except point out to mully that the bridgy was so good I would try it first before the car tire. And the real thing was what he liked was more important then anyones opinion including mine. Later dude Its off to prison I go

 

[CanberraR3]

I've tried at least a couple of all 3 MTs. Firstly Warp's observation about the Avon going flat is borne out in my experience too. I won't go into detail, as I've done it several times in several threads on here, but put simply I'd rate them as follows (out of 10).

Metz - 3 Handles reasonably well when new but wears too quickly and goes to crap after the first couple of thousand kms.
Avon - 5; mostly because it wasn't too good in the wet. On a dry track only I'd give it 7. Better wearing than Metz but don't expect even passable handling in the wet after it's at 50%.
Bridgestone - 9. Twice the mileage of Metz, 50% more than Avon and sure footed in wet or dry to about 90% wear. Love the higher profile too.

If only someone would come up with a 10.

On the care tyre, I totally agree with Bull that here is no way anyone should be claiming a car tyre on a bike is safer than a bike tyre. I'd even say it's dangerously irresponsible for anyone to say that. It might seem to have better grip and last longer and do other things that is some people's opinion is better suited to them, but it cannot be safer. Use one if you want and tell those asking for an opinion that they should try one if they think it's a smart thing to do.

One thing not mentioned so far in this thread is that anyone putting a car tyre on their bike should at the very least ensure their insurance won't be affected. No point knowing someone else is OK; check your own policy/insurer.

 

[TheMadScientist]

I intend on trying the car tire to experience it for myself. I do appreciate all the input of people that have posted their experiences with the car tire. This allows me to benefit from others experience of others.

Mr bull you are correct about the formulae. I was thinking of the one below

F=μN=μmg
F is force of friction. μ Is the coefficient of friction and N is force pushing down in Newtons or pounds. mg can be substituted for N. m is mass and g is the acceleration due to gravity.

 

[STRIPES]

I have to admit....the first tire I tried was a 245 because of the cool factor. It did counter steer quite a bit. After progressively going down to a 235 now a 225, there is a significant difference.....better with each change. With the 225, I can't tell it is a CT. I recently had to go to the 225 because that was the only thing I could find out in deep west TX Big Bend country and a shredded Metz. I don't even know what brand it is. I was desperate. (This is my 4th CT)

 

[Watcher]

ok boys I'm goign to try the brigey I have got about 6500 mile on the mets right now looks like I can get about another 1200 or so if I can get more out of the bridgy that will be good I ordered them today but dont plane to put them on till a few days befor MV so I'll have freash meats for the run I got them in the same size as what came on the touring so no size difference

 

[warp9.9]

I've tried at least a couple of all 3 MTs. Firstly Warp's observation about the Avon going flat is borne out in my experience too. I won't go into detail, as I've done it several times in several threads on here, but put simply I'd rate them as follows (out of 10).

Metz - 3 Handles reasonably well when new but wears too quickly and goes to crap after the first couple of thousand kms.
Avon - 5; mostly because it wasn't too good in the wet. On a dry track only I'd give it 7. Better wearing than Metz but don't expect even passable handling in the wet after it's at 50%.
Bridgestone - 9. Twice the mileage of Metz, 50% more than Avon and sure footed in wet or dry to about 90% wear. Love the higher profile too.

If only someone would come up with a 10.

On the care tyre, I totally agree with Bull that here is no way anyone should be claiming a car tyre on a bike is safer than a bike tyre. I'd even say it's dangerously irresponsible for anyone to say that. It might seem to have better grip and last longer and do other things that is some people's opinion is better suited to them, but it cannot be safer. Use one if you want and tell those asking for an opinion that they should try one if they think it's a smart thing to do.

One thing not mentioned so far in this thread is that anyone putting a car tyre on their bike should at the very least ensure their insurance won't be affected. No point knowing someone else is OK; check your own policy/insurer.

I must say this is a well thought out statement andaccurate steement. I could not agree with it any more.I did get 7000 out of the metz but as I admited with not many curves in Illinos I can see why. The shinko 240/40/VR18 only lasted 4300 miles but at 157 dollars I still consider it a good tire. I was hard on it so there is a pssibility I could have gotten more out of it but I purposely beat the snot out of it to see how it would hold against a large amount of Horse power. I will try is again as it was only 157 USD but I will try it on Gracie which does have 260 HP less so I suspect it will last lomger om regu;ar low HP Rockets. I heard they are working on a 16 inch for the Rocket which just might be worth it except om real long trips. Time will tell. I wanteda set of Carbon fiber rims but after hearing how well they hold up on average road conditions I think they are to much money for something that breaks. Not withstanding or jusdging the front one that broke on Bones bike as it was a violent wreck. the rear how ever failing on a pot hole Is more probable for the average rider so 5000 bucks is just too much money,

I can aslo see after running a 240 car tire the opinions on a 225 not giving as much grief. But not enough to run a tire which has a bead seal area not designed the same as a motorcycle tire and therfore is not designed for a MC rim. to each his own I do not partake in gay activities either and nor do I want to test it out to see if I like it

(a little humor ther so don't anyone get their panties in a bunch.) Good observations CanberraR3 you have my vote. If any CT guys get upset about what I posted let me say I am sorry ahead of time!!!!!

 

[STRIPES]

Wow! A TP echo!

 

[GPMAZ]

Or, just another experienced rider's opinion.

Nice to see reasoned responses without resorting to name calling etc.

 

[mully95]

Or, just another experienced rider's opinion.

Nice to see reasoned responses without resorting to name calling etc.

I think we have talked about this subject so much that we have got all the naming calling out of systems and also we realize that nobody will ever win the debate. lol

 

[HansO]

A opinion is only valid if the person making the stated opinions has in fact based the opinion on personal experience not hear say, so I say try it and only condemn if you have actually had experience on both other wise all you are doing is nothing more than stirring the pot.
A so called expert tester is much the same as it is only their opinion in a controlled situation not real world because the test tracks would be nothing like the real world roads. that is all I have to say and as previously stated after trying a Brigdestone if it isn't up to the same std as the CT I will be straight back and then look out any that try to condemn a CT with out actually trying one ...... nuff said