New Cams New Thread

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. A broken chain is very rare indeed. A scratch or material defect in one plate would reduce the strength of the chain and would likely be where a crack would initiate from. However, one weak plate out of nine would not lead to chain failure normally.

All cams twist during use. They are essentially a torsion bar with pressure at the lobes inducing a counter-rotation twist relative to the sprocket's rotation as each lobe depresses a valve and then inducing a twist in the opposite direction, or accelerating the cam, as the valve spring pushes the bucket against the backside of the lobe during valve closing. The firing order determines the sequence of opening and closing events along the cam. Thus, the cam sprocket can actually rotate in the opposite direction of the normal rotation, albeit very little in terms of angular position but extremely fast. Add in the fact that there are two cams with asynchronous loading and you have a system of excitation that twists the cams independent of the cam chain. Thus at times the chain between the cams gears can be under far greater tensile load than calculated from the leverage needed to open the valves and then can be completely slack in a very few degrees of gross cam rotation.

The diameter of the beam, or shaft of the cam, the length between load and driver (sprocket and lifter actually under load) and the material type determines the spring rate of the cam. The length, diameter, material and total mass determine the natural frequency of the cam. If you over lay the natural frequency and the excitation rate, you can determine the speeds and loads where harmonics can occur and which can then amplify the amount of twist.

I suspect, but have no proof, that some of the R3's problems with cam tensioners and cam chain guides are due to cyclical loading of the cam chain by cam shaft dynamics. This might explain the cam tensioner failures, the disintegration of the rubber on some guides where the tensioner pad pushes, and the cracking of some of the chain guides some captains have experienced. The R3's three cylinder design, bore spacing and cam chain length make this system behave quite differently than a four cylinder from which many components originate.

Add lift and change the ramp profile of the cams; add spring rate to the valve springs; change the lobe center separation; and then add 35% more rpm to a system that has the same beam characteristics (welded lobes on the stock cam), and you may have a problem with how the system behaves, especially at high rpm. Your bike just came off the dyno where it likely spent more time at higher than stock rpm for more time than it would likely see on the street for thousands of miles (well for most of us anyway.)

A billet cam will have at the very least a different natural frequency due to the material change and very likely a small diameter change. Thus a billet cam may improve the system by changing the frequency and amplitude of the vibrations and resultant harmonics, but it could also make it worse. The "Man in the tin shed" likely has experience regarding the phenomena of which I write, and of the impact of using his cams in the R3.

You may want to discuss with him the ramifications of using one Carpenter and one Lush cam before buttoning up your motor.
 
Updating 2nd post to provide some detective work.

Thank Speedy, we've talked in regarding mixing the cams and I'm quite confident this will be nothing but better, but that doesn't preclude throwing a Neville exhaust cam, something I'll likely end up doing.
 
147.63 limit, in the how to thread your measured 142.xx, believe me this is why I put info here, because I forget myself lol.

Right I've no idea where in the hell I got the 147.63mm limit from, or my measurement of 142.xx. Fixed it now. Sorry to have lead you astray.

Manual's limit is 149.48mm as per extract below. Did you measure across the 23 (or is it 24...) links like the diagram on below left?


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I measured across 23.

The older manual has 147.63 as the limit, since I'm using the older chain, I expect it's probably appropriate. I did suspend it and weight it etc.

Thanks for following up. It's particularly fun when everyone is correct!

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I checked valve clearances... Spoke to soon on having what I needed, all 12 out of spec, intakes have zero clearance.

Only logical conclusion is the regrinds have a little of the base circle ground down to achieve lift targets.

No big deal, hayabusa shim kit to the rescue :p
 
Two observations, regrind cams by their nature must have a smaller base circle or the weld would be like .001" thick on the base circle and commence dropping off. Also the billet cams I sell are somewhat thicker in shaft size, and I would think ( to quote Speedy, I have no proof :)) that the steel is more rigid than the cast Triumph stick.

At least if your valve clearance is all the same and all zero, you should not have bent a valve. Even a wee bend will cause an increase in clearance. Stainless or Ti valves??
 
Ok... there are what I term street cams, to drop into an otherwise stock motor. Freer exhaust and air filter needed to achieve proper benefits. Then a pair to suit 9.7 comp, but stock valve gear, then a pair to suit 10.2 comp to 10.5 comp, with stock valve gear. Also to suit stock valve gear, there are sets for stock motor with supercharger, and two sets for stock valve gear with higher comp and supercharger. All of these cams will assume good exhaust and air filter. If you wish to run no filter, that's your pidgeon. I find dirt reduces the power more than air filters. All cams previous suppose a rpm limit of 7000 max with stock valve parts. With a spring/retainer change there are another two sets depending on compression. This takes the rpm to 7600 ( and a bit more if the engine needs it). With shim under bucket conversion and stock size or larger valves I have two main sets I use depending on comp and I do one special grind which I only use if doing the head here, due to set up with .475lift. Also two grinds for supercharger with over 420 lift and different duration for F/A. A set of cams like the ones Mitzy has works great with 10.2-10.5 comp and less than 7500rpm. Smooth and torquey, better than a stocker, but still over .420lift (shim under). After a lot of work/research etc the cams for use under 7000 and with 10.5 pistons,like on my site will go in without indexing,like the street cams,although this assumes a good/new/low mileage cam chain. The highest comp I use with stock valve gear and associated lift cams is 10.5 unless I have the bike here, to index the cams. After having shipped cams about the place everywhere, I have found there are plenty of folk who think they can do this and not many really can. Back to tuning a bike for me at present, cheers Nev.

This is what I told you on April 27th 2017.
 
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