Detonation can be unhealthy high booster's be careful!

[Sidecar Flip]

I fried a motor today....

The one on my drill press and I was standing up when it happened. It was sttttttttttinnnnnnnkyyyyyyyy.

 

[Kmutt]

I fried a motor today....

The one on my drill press and I was standing up when it happened. It was sttttttttttinnnnnnnkyyyyyyyy.

That what ya get for not lubin' up before ya play!

mutt

 

[hombre]

This entire situation really does stink!

The facts as related to me by Scott (Warp9.9):

a) Scott was running the latest TTS tune ("disconnectmapsensorbestmap") before going to Power-Tripp for tuning.

b) That TTS tune is plenty rich (as much as 10.5 AF), and has a fuel cut at 6600 RPM

c) Scott was running a stock Triumph fuel pump.

d) Wayne Tripp added an octane booster to Scott's fuel before tuning.

e) Wayne Tripp ran Scott's engine to 7200 RPM on the dyno (observed by Scott).

Opinions of several forced induction engine builders given facts and photos:

1) The stock fuel pump can't supply enough fuel for the boost made over 7000 RPM.

2) Number 3 piston was probably burnt on dyno due to detonation from fuel starvation at 7200 RPM. It's common for a burnt piston to keep running for 1000 miles, but deterioration continues because of initial damage, which cannot be reversed with correct fueling.

3) An "expert" tuner should know that over revving a supercharged engine has several dire consequences, exceeding the fuel pump capabilities being just one of them. An "expert" tuner would ask, and keep the engine within it's capabilities.

 

[Pig9r]

I guess that's why I've had to sign a release before each dyno session I've done.

 

[hombre]

BTW, it was Richard at TTS that informed me that the stock fuel pump can't supply enough fuel for the boost made over 7000 RPM. Apparently he has seen this on his dyno.

 

[Jamie]

My 2 cents worth, after dismantling my engine @ close to 35'000 miles to install Neville's bits. Everything looked quite good, except for some, very marginal carbon build-up on the top of the pistons-- which I have replaced anyway using Neville-supplied JE pistons and two exhaust valves that looked past their prime. While "at it", I have changed all the exhaust valves.

I met with Mr Genoud this pm, of Godier-Genoud Kawasaki endurance fame, and we talked about my machine (which he is going to dyno one of these days, after I can get my Tuneboy to work, just to RIDE it to his shop in France ). His view is that the Rocket engine is way too lean anyway and that "fuel starving", e.g. even keeping it @6500 rev's, let alone pushing the "red zone" beyond that, is looking for trouble.

Jamie

 

[Sidecar Flip]

My take on this thread.

......My comment, other than humorous insertions is simply that you have to pay to play.

Any time you modify an engine for more power and change the base parameters that the engine builders spent time and engineering expense to establish, you run the risk of destroying the engine.

I equate a dynomometer run to a cardiac stress test. It's possible to go into cardiac arrest doing a stress test just like it's possible to put your engine in cardiac arrest when stressing it.

Without insulting you Walt, I observe that you have the wherewithall to extensively modify your R3 but your modifications are primarily the result of others expertise and not your own. Having said that, I can't find fault in your assertions other than stating that you are basing those assertions on others' opinions and not opinions you gathered first hand or have the techinical expertise or first hand knowledge to deduce. I have not seen one instance concerning your R3 that would lead me to believe that a performance modification was obatined using your own personally garnered knowledge and first hand experience. That's all well and good because that's what the aftermarket performance industry is based on. It don't, however, give you the right to pass judgement on someone else, or flame them on a public forum. That is in bad taste in my opinion.

It's been my experience that all tuners make mistakes. It's part of the learning curve (and why you sign a hold harmless when you submit your vehicle to a dyno test). In my many conversations with Wayne, I never got the feeling that he would blatantly compromise anyone's engine through neglience and that's exactly what you are intimating in this thread.

If you believe that anyone in the business, including myself, Wayne Tripp, Carpenter Racing, Nev Lush, or anyone else engaged in manufacturing or distribution or individual tuning or testing of high performance motorcycles would knowingly compromise a customer, you are off base. That, would be extremely detrimental to any of us.

 

[Jamie]

Flip, Walt's posts, both here and there, give me a joyous adrenalin boost. Were it not for his posts, I would probably have grown weary of my Oct. '04 green machine months ago. That's the way I have been (perhaps wrongly so) about all the bikes I have owned since 1967. And the green machine has already outlived all its predecessors in my stable, both in terms of years of ownership and kilometers (in spite of my having had two "mistresses" in the meantime).

This being said, the Rocket III (thought I had already told the tale here) was massively detuned when it hit the market, compared to the factory prototypes which easily churned 180 HP's without ANY tune... and which fried the rear Metz in no time... and which scared the factory testers to death (source was "Das Motorrad" , moons ago, I should have kept a copy of the article).

Friendly regards. Jamie

 

[hombre]

I publish the expert opinions of others to spare SC R3 owners similar fates. I asked Wayne Tripp his opinion on what caused Scott's detonation on this forum months ago. What I have done to my bike is of no issue here. Power-Tripp offers tuning services on this forum as an "expert tuner". I see he no longer mentions "Forced Induction" tuning on his website, where it was previously offered at a premium to NA tuning.

The first step to learning is to admit your mistake. IMO, Wayne Tripp owes Scott an apology and damages, which would go a long way in restoring his credibilty.

 

[scot in exile]

I do not know if Warp9.9 had to sign a release form as Brian had to but if he did that form is telling you things can go wrong and if they do i accept no responsibility.
Every time you deviate from factory specs you never know what can happen, i feel bad for your situation and hopefully it can be resolved.