Dyno Tune vs PCV?

[Rocket3Pilot]

I'm new to the world of ECU tuning and I'm getting pretty confused with all the lingo and products out there.

I'm considering Paul Bryant headers which will require retuning so here's my question.

Can the ECU be modified by a competent Dyno Tuner or must you have a Power Commander module in place for them to do the tune?

What's the least risky thing to do? My bike runs perfectly now stock and I'm hesitant to start monkeying with it but would like to have the headers and the benefit of the extra HP/torque.

My take on it is that the Power Commander module simply tricks the ECU with altered inputs while the stock map resides in the ECU? Does that sound close?

I'd appreciate the simplest analogy if anyone has one, thanks.

 

[1olbull]

Where are you from?

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

None of the mods are simple or cheap. To get full benefit of the new headers an all out customization would be new dyno tune, new air intake and new exhaust cans. However there are 2 simple mods, one is free plus a $20 cable. It is a new canned tune loaded with a free on-line program called TuneEcu. The other is installing a Dobeck Performance AFR Plus that modifies your electrical signal to the fuel injectors and provides a smother fuel delivery. The other benefit is it controls the Air/Fuel ratio to always be correct or to whatever AFR you want. With the AFR Plus you are always able to get the correct AFR even with later modifications. No retune to download and no dyno tuner needed. I have chosen the AFR Plus as my fuel controller and find it to be the simplest solution. BTW: I gained 19 HP and 10 TQ and my MPG jumped up 5 to 10 MPG provided I keep my right wrist under control.

 

[Claviger]

There are a few options, each with their own quirks.

PC-V and AT module: Good system, doesn't require a dyno to tune and there are plenty of maps out there to pick from. Best used with a PC.

Dobeck: Super simple fuel piggyback, no PC required, no dyno required.

TuneECU: Find a tuner that knows it and will work with it, dyno required unless you know how to tune yourself. Requires redyno with significant motorcycle changes.

Tuneboy: Run far and fast.

There are a number of other piggyback systems out there, but sticking with the first three here will ensure best community support.


All these systems would be maximized by being tuned on a dyno, but the PCV and Dobeck can get you **** close without one.

Advice: intake adjustments don't gain you any power, and in fact cost you power, without first doing the exhaust, so I suggest start with headers/mufflers, then intake or do them together.

The best formula to keep it a gas/tires/oil bike.... use TuneECU to open the secondaries using a stock tune and call it done.

 

[R-III-R Turbo]

I'm new to the world of ECU tuning and I'm getting pretty confused with all the lingo and products out there.

I'm considering Paul Bryant headers which will require retuning so here's my question.

Can the ECU be modified by a competent Dyno Tuner or must you have a Power Commander module in place for them to do the tune?

What's the least risky thing to do? My bike runs perfectly now stock and I'm hesitant to start monkeying with it but would like to have the headers and the benefit of the extra HP/torque.

My take on it is that the Power Commander module simply tricks the ECU with altered inputs while the stock map resides in the ECU? Does that sound close?

I'd appreciate the simplest analogy if anyone has one, thanks.

Are you considering the headers for looks, performance or both?
If performance orientated as the guys say u should do more than just header alone to get best results.

A competent dyno tuner could do it with either ECU (with either TunECU or TuneBoy) or Power Commander.

Least risky thing would be power commander (or any other know piggyback unit like dobeck) since it doesn't change what's in the ECU.
It only intercepts the signal from the ECU to the injectors, and replaces it with one to suit your Power Commander map.
If it starts giving guff u can always just physically unplug it from the harness and bike will go back to running solely on the map in the ECU.

So yes you were close but the 'piggyback' units like power commander don't trick the ECU, they 'trick' the injectors by replacing the ECU's signal to them for how much petrol is to be squirted in.
The stock map does reside in the ECU, and can only be changed with TuneECU or TuneBoy.

TuneECU is a free download and works well to cover diagnostics & basic remapping of both fuel and ignition maps IN the ECU. You just need to buy a $20 cable from LoneElec (one retailer) to connect laptop to bike.
It is definitely the cheapest option, provided your dyno guy is competent.
TuneBoy costs a few quid but for now u need it if you want to do fancier stuff. Works in same way as TuneECU, but has more features.
Both of these will require dyno tuner to be fairly competent, as both are interfering with the ECU and have access to more than just a simple fuel map.


If you need a simple analogy., let's say you are a store owner (bike owner).
You have a store manager but he's a bit difficult to work with, he only has the job because he' your wife's brother or something; but he's there from the start and can't be removed really.
He posts a letter (signal) to your employees (injectors) every day with instructions (fuel quantities, by way of injector openings), but the instructions don't work very well in getting tasks done right.
So you hires someone else (power commander) to intercept those letters everyday before they get to the employees, and replace them with better work instructions.
You do this because it just seems easier and less risky than trying to change the store manager's ways.

Hth

 

[Rocket3Pilot]

Where are you from?

Charlottesville Virginia

 

[idk]

Get TuneECU. Even if you don't use it to tune the bike it will allow you to do all sorts of diagnostics and adjustments - better than the Triumph tool that the dealers use. However, it will also allow you to put a better tune in your bike than the OEM tune which has to meet government interferences.

Also, get PCV/AT which with the correct map from @HansO will retune your bike to optimal performance, and will also do so after you have changed exhaust or inlet configurations. With a professional dyno tune you may get a little more, but not much.

 

[Rocket3Pilot]

Thank you all for your responses. I think I was on the right track understanding the principles involved but now I see the difference in the products, Thanks!

It seems like the Dobeck AFR Plus might be the best solution. It sounds like a "plug and play" that wouldn't be money wasted later. I don't think I need to get the maximum HP/Torque tune but would like to bolt on the headers and not have decel popping, flat spots, or burnt valves, or create some other problem as a result. I would go for a competent Dyno Tune however if and when I can find one.

I've watched several You Tube videos demonstrating the "ease of use" with the various mapping tools and they all looked like potential nightmares. I swore off Windows anything 15years ago and only use Apple so that's adding to my lack of confidence in these programs.( or my ability to comprehend them )

I'm leaning towards Paul Bryant headers over CES. While it appears the CES would actually provide better performance because they are equal length and longer, Paul's look better and more practical to me. The CES just have a different look which is also pretty cool too, but maybe just too in your face kinda aggressive?

Thanks again, extremely helpful!

 

[Rocket3Pilot]

None of the mods are simple or cheap. To get full benefit of the new headers an all out customization would be new dyno tune, new air intake and new exhaust cans. However there are 2 simple mods, one is free plus a $20 cable. It is a new canned tune loaded with a free on-line program called TuneEcu. The other is installing a Dobeck Performance AFR Plus that modifies your electrical signal to the fuel injectors and provides a smother fuel delivery. The other benefit is it controls the Air/Fuel ratio to always be correct or to whatever AFR you want. With the AFR Plus you are always able to get the correct AFR even with later modifications. No retune to download and no dyno tuner needed. I have chosen the AFR Plus as my fuel controller and find it to be the simplest solution. BTW: I gained 19 HP and 10 TQ and my MPG jumped up 5 to 10 MPG provided I keep my right wrist under control.

Thanks, I'm curious, did you get that extra 19 HP without any other modifications? That is very impressive. It makes me wonder why the stock ECU's from the factory aren't tuned any better than they are?

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

After the AFR Plus was installed I think by the time it was run on the dyno I had changed 1 of the 3 exhaust pipes to a TORs but I'm not sure. With your Roadster I would recommend you get the TORs pipes because they give it a little more sound but not excessive. The TORs pipes also eliminate the catalytic converters for better flow. Then add the AFR Plus. For under $1000 you get a really nice improvement. There are good used Roadster TORs pipes available for a good savings. You can find them on this forum or on EBay.

You know we start out wanting to make just little improvements and doing so by not spending too much money. Then you catch the bug. Oh boy what can be done to this motor !