To join the Dark Side or Not?

Mully,
That was a **** good objective well written review.
Pretty much mirrors my own after spending an afternoon on my friends CT mounted on a motor identical to mine. Cornering with the CT was much harder to initiate; but, once into the corner it was better than I expected. Not hard to maintain the radius and it did not flop as I thought it might. Changing lean angle, especially when tightening the radius, did NOT inspire confidence in me. I did not feel comfortable taking the bike into nearly as deep a lean as I was accustomed to. At the suggestion of my friend, I played with the air pressure (34 to 28 pounds). Remarkable how much difference that made - so much so, it made me wary about the whole concept of running way lower air pressure than recommended. I also did not care for the squishy feel of the flexing sidewall when on lower air pressure.

I will say that CT was a hoot for doing burnouts! It had a great squealing squawk like RED fox getting its balls slammed in a beaver trap.

tire pressure

Mully, I can not understand how you can ride on the sidewalls if your tire pressure was correct.
Did you try lowering the pressure down to 30-34 psi?

1olbull said:

Mully,
I will say that CT was a hoot for doing burnouts! It had a great squealing squawk like RED fox getting its balls slammed in a beaver trap.

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I say you take a tire thats rubber is designed to hold grip with much more weight on it the the bike and wonder why it spins so easy? well My opinion you can do it easy with a car also just put a floor jack under the car anf lift some of the weight off that was desined to grip at and watch it spin easier also.
go figure

warp9.9 said:

I say you take a tire thats rubber is designed to hold grip with much more weight on it the the bike and wonder why it spins so easy? well My opinion you can do it easy with a car also just put a floor jack under the car anf lift some of the weight off that was desined to grip at and watch it spin easier also.
go figure

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Or use a pickup
Warpo,
Interesting what you say regarding the intended cage weight versus a much lighter motor. Likely huge differences in rubber compound as well, no? Some CT zealot told me once that M/C tires have harder compound than car tires based on durometer testing he had done. If so, that would be counter to your weight hypothesis.
Interesting . . . .
Best Regards,
1olbull

1olbull said:

Or use a pickup
Warpo,
Interesting what you say regarding the intended cage weight versus a much lighter motor. Likely huge differences in rubber compound as well, no? Some CT zealot told me once that M/C tires have harder compound than car tires based on durometer testing he had done. If so, that would be counter to your weight hypothesis.
Interesting . . . .
Best Regards,
1olbull

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Very possible and I must admit I would not know but am curious. if the compound was softer I would think the wear would be worse the the metzler for instance. Agin I surley don't know but do wonder about it.

Love my Avon Cobra tires. Worth every penny.

I never thought there was a debate wether car tires were better than motorcycle tires. I thought the debate was wether the car tires were good/safe enough. The force for of friction is determined by several things : the tires coefficient of friction, the force pushing down, on a horizontal plane this is the weight of bike/car(mass x acceleration due to gravity). Size of contact patch. Tread pattern has a great affect on this. Tread is there to channel water away to prevent hydroplaning. A vehicles weight is directly proportional to its instance of hydroplaning,as well as speed. The tires with the highest coefficient of friction have no tread at all, drag racing tires have a coefficient of 4 , I believe.
You can't compare a car tires and motorcycles tires coefficient of friction and determine which is better. A lot of science goes into designing these tires, it should not be ignored. A tires rating wether it is a 30,000 tire or 40,000 is calculated using the tires coefficient of friction.

So the question is are car tires good/safe enough for your driving style? It is self evident which tires are the best.

Try both the CT and the Bridgy, but don't look for the cheapest CT look for the one that has the lowest wear rate on the side my current CT has a wear rate of only 260 and I think that is the secret to selecting the right one the tyre in this picture has done almost 20,000km and probably only do a couple thousand more, when you compare that to some that say they get 30,000 km or more it is because they probably do not push in the twisties which I do.
I have also included a picture of the front which is a cobra and if you look carefully I take it to the edge as with both tyres you can see there is the main leaning wear areas but then there is the outer wear area and it never goes on to the sidewall also a picture of the feeler on the boards, keep in mind I have got 20mm extra ride height and Sorry but I don't I don't feel or struggle with change of direction.
The only real down side with a CT compared to a MT is the Crawl speed manoeuvring and again very low speed bump steer effect.
In saying All That, I Do Have An Open Mind and the Brigdestone came on the scene after I fitted this last tyre and I have said before I will Try it next but it will have to be good or I'll be back on the Federal 595 (current CT) faster than you can blink because I have no complaint with it whereas the Toyo Proxies R1 was too soft in the sidewall yet never let go.
My original decision to try a CT was after having a another rider staying with me with ease while The Metz was moving around and before any body says I must of had it's tyre pressure to soft,... don't bother I religiously check my tyres

TheMadScientist said:

I never thought there was a debate wether car tires were better than motorcycle tires. I thought the debate was wether the car tires were good/safe enough. The force for of friction is determined by several things : the tires coefficient of friction, the force pushing down, on a horizontal plane this is the weight of bike/car(mass x acceleration due to gravity). Size of contact patch. Tread pattern has a great affect on this. Tread is there to channel water away to prevent hydroplaning. A vehicles weight is directly proportional to its instance of hydroplaning,as well as speed. The tires with the highest coefficient of friction have no tread at all, drag racing tires have a coefficient of 4 , I believe.
You can't compare a car tires and motorcycles tires coefficient of friction and determine which is better. A lot of science goes into designing these tires, it should not be ignored. A tires rating wether it is a 30,000 tire or 40,000 is calculated using the tires coefficient of friction.

So the question is are car tires good/safe enough for your driving style? It is self evident which tires are the best.

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:bch:
Man! This is the best, most level headed conversation I have seen regarding this interesting issue.

Great input, TMS!
I agree with you about what the debate SHOULD be about. Honestly, I think a CT can work on big cruiser bikes just fine as long as the rider doesn't push near the handling limits of the machine. These Rockets do not handle like most big cruisers, with the possible exception of a Goldwing. Before you scream at me, they DO HANDLE well.

My only issue just my opinion here is when a few make claims that a CT is superior to the tire designed for a MC. I just don't think the physics supports that contention and I shall just disagree until I see some scientific testing proving me wrong.

I sure agree that the friction values of the respective tires are apples & oranges. The biggest component may simply be the different designs, cross sections and applications, like one is not designed to lean. BTW - Mass X acceleration is momentum (F=MA - Newton's second law) and not a factor directly bearing on friction . . . I think.

Does anyone know what is involved in determining a tires coefficient of friction rating?
Tread compound - sidewall rating - aspect ratio - ???
1olbull

This has been a great thread!!
I truly appreciate all the unbiased and truthful thoughts shared!
I think for now, I'll order the Bridgestone while I'm here in Europe. (Definitely have to honor a fellow aviators candid thoughts) and then when I get back to the states, I'll try a CT.
I really like the TRY BOTH, and the technical discussions. I think for me, if guys running them aren't inspired by confidence leaning into the turns, I may be best suited sticking to the MT while here on the narrow, winding, and often "Strasse Schaden" roads, particularly in Eastern Europe and the Alps.
I'm a firm believer in Know your machine, Know it's limits, Know yourself and Know your limits! Push the boundaries only in a safe environment with room to recover. For me, I think that environment will come when I get back to the states