Had to leave Barbers Early

[DEcosse]

i will recheck all the hoses, I changed the plugs this morning and it started right up and was fine for about 10miles now it will not even try to idle(could the plugs foul up so quickly?)

OK - that is encouraging news - definitely sounds like the plugs are fouling and changing them gives some momentary relief
But that was before you reset adaptions, right? (& when the adaptions were subsequently reset, it was with already fouled plugs I presume?)
If you can clean them and get it to idle, check those MAP sensor readings

Again, it's all 'theory' at this point, but assuming no vac leaks, it kinda 'fits' that you started out with clean plugs and fresh mapping situation; then it progressively trims to point where you have overly rich condition and it fouls the plugs; you change the plugs and it starts OK but then quickly falls off again - if fueling had already been 'trimmed' to that seriously rich condition, then plugs would quickly foul again. If adaptions were reset, it may not have immediate desired effect because plugs already seriously fouled.

Same mechanism could prevail, even if OEM was not trimming and plugs were just fouling off a very poor fueling condition from the outset. Although you might expect that it would take longer with fresh plugs again unless the fueling was worse than when you first started into this (unless it HAD already been 'trimmed')

I'm not 100% sure whether just unchecking the box for O2 sensors actually disables closed loop - I've seen mixed opinions on this (in that it only disables the error if disconnected, but not the actual operation of the sensor & its effect in closed loop)
Two things will prevent it being in closed loop for sure - if the A/F table is set to less than 14.5 in any of the cells; if the O2 sensor is physically disconnected (at which point you need the box unchecked to prevent an MIL error)
On my own bike, OEM sensor is completely removed and I actually have a wideband O2 connected with no closed loop feedback to the ECU.
For anyone with a tuned bike, a wideband sensor is really nice piece of gear to have.

 

[scot in exile]

Double checked all the vac lines they seem good I then removed one off the new plugs that I installed this morning with not even 10 miles on it and WTF

'

 

[scot in exile]

Not much luck getting readings with plugs like that but 10miles if that, when I changed them this morning I then tried the 12min tune about four minutes into the twelve minute stage it cut out but when I took it for a run it seemed not bad

 

[CanberraR3]

When mine was running like yours seems to be it turned out to be plug leads. 1 had a split in the cap so when I fiddled with them or changed plugs it would be OK for a while and then play up again when the split opened up. At least one other was rooted too. If all your plugs are the same them this most likely isn't your problem though. Before I found the real problem I'd replaced the TPS, both temp and pressure sensors, ran different tunes and had the injectors cleaned, amongst other things. New set of leads fixed it. Not cheap though.

 

[DEcosse]

.. when I changed them this morning I then tried the 12min tune

By its very definition, 12 min tune is 'adapting' i.e. trying to compensate for whatever the PC is telling it deliver.
Note that bike has to be at temperature before it begin to adapt

 

[scot in exile]

Cleaned the plugs but no good it is farting and spluttering like a Methil docks whore, can not get it to idle have to keep the throttle open and even then it is surging.

 

[DEcosse]

Did you reset adaption after you cleaned the plugs?

Which base map are you using?

I compared the 'std' Touring (20367) vs 'std' Roadster (20352) maps and honestly not much difference in the L tables
- main difference happens in the wider throttle openings in the F tables.

 

[DEcosse]

Here's some thinking out loud ..........


Link Removed


Let's take a look at this again:

The first two cells in the 'zero' TP column are significant negative numbers; and 2% open is similar (other than 500/750 rpm rows)

What would happen with this map on top of OEM map is that, when cold the rpm would be 'up' somewhere north of 1000 (depending on ambient temp) and so it would be looking at for most part zero adjustment at (fast) idle)
As temp comes up, then it would then be looking at those 750/1000 cells and it would become lean (but offset somewhat by the enrichment factor the Temp sensor is creating in the background).
Next phase is it reaches full temp and now bike goes into closed loop - it immediately then corrects for the lean condition and creates an 'adaption' trim in the OEM map.
That in turn then effectively cancels out those negative trims in the PC map - however if you then head off & start riding, once out of 'closed loop' you now have that 'newly created' positive adaption delta PLUS all the predominantly positive deltas from the rest of the PC map - so bike will be running quite a bit rich!
Note that in the very low throttle opening (2%) it also has some large negative correction through about 3k rpm
If you drop back to idle, you are once again into the closed loop area and once again, it will affirm the trim it needs to 'attempt' to bring it back to stoich; however with the plugs seriously fouled all best are off at this point on what it is trying to do, as you can't maintain it running without opening the throttle - which potentially gets you out of closed loop area.

If you are running a PC, for me you MUST stop it from going into closed loop so the two systems are not fighting each other

p.s. there is also a 'calibrate TPS for the PC - this has nothing to do with the TPS reset which affects the OEM map and further has no influence on it; but what it DOES do is ensure that the zero TPS position is the same for both sets of tables. If this is not done in the PC, you can't be sure that when actual Throttle is closed, that the PC is actually looking at the zero TP column.

** All of my practical experience of PC was with PCIII so that is what I'm drawing on; so my 'assumptions' are PCV is similar for most part in basic operation

 

[scot in exile]

Is it possible to simply disconnect the PC?

 

[DEcosse]

Sure - you can either disconnect it, or (less hassle if you plan to restore it) you can save the existing PC map and load in a 'zero' map in its place

Note you will again have to reset the adaptions before you restart