AFR "Safe Zone?"

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[URL="http://[/URL] Check this out. In relation to the rocket I would regard the Stoichiometric range as the lean range, and the red header pipe range down to about 16 :1 Stoich is acheived in a lab with perfect octane fuel etc etc. I would normally not comment on this sort of thread, but there is a whole world of danger in some comments here .This is for naturally aspirated bikes only Forced is another whole issue. Safe is good. Hope the link works as I am not used to doing it. Cheers

Neville Lush said:

[URL="http://[/URL] Check this out. In relation to the rocket I would regard the Stoichiometric range as the lean range, and the red header pipe range down to about 16 :1 Stoich is acheived in a lab with perfect octane fuel etc etc. I would normally not comment on this sort of thread, but there is a whole world of danger in some comments here .This is for naturally aspirated bikes only Forced is another whole issue. Safe is good. Hope the link works as I am not used to doing it. Cheers

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Another good one from a resident Rocket Master

Neville Lush said:

[URL="http://[/URL] Check this out. In relation to the rocket I would regard the Stoichiometric range as the lean range, and the red header pipe range down to about 16 :1 Stoich is acheived in a lab with perfect octane fuel etc etc. I would normally not comment on this sort of thread, but there is a whole world of danger in some comments here .This is for naturally aspirated bikes only Forced is another whole issue. Safe is good. Hope the link works as I am not used to doing it. Cheers

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Thanks, Neville.
This is good information.

stoich

As an example of how wrong these things can be. Harley set up the V-Rods at 14.7 under approx 60% throttle and 5500rpm. If one rides a V Rod at 60km/h in 4th gear for say 2 kms ( 60km is a common speed limit in OZ ) in the dark, one can see the rear header colouring orange. The air cooled Harleys will run at least 20degs Celsius cooler if set up properly, not at 14.7 as they are set for emmissions. Ducatis run like crap down low ( under 5000) as do Sprints, Rockets and many other newish bikes. The engines are designed around smog laws. New zx6rr's are jerky and crap under 6000, repeat ad nauseum. By all means go about and home tune your bikes using all manner of devices, but you really need to think a lot about what your doing. The guy behind the keyboard may have the best intentions, but possibly is a fantastic world class interior decorator in his day job, rather than a tuner/mechanic or whatever. Fuels vary from different countries and regions as well, so the ubercool tune from Jack Brown in Denver will be much different to the super race pack tune from the guy at Port Elliot South Australia. Hope you all get my drift. Have a good day. Oh BTW I copied that little table from a mag as I thought it was a good guide. I would skid the desciption from the first two columns of "what you see" across 2 columns to the right to make it better.

Neville Lush said:

By all means go about and home tune your bikes using all manner of devices, but ..... The guy behind the keyboard may have the best intentions, but possibly is a fantastic world class interior decorator in his day job, rather than a tuner/mechanic or whatever. ...........

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100% in agreement. If the tune hasn't been developed on a dyno, it's called guessing. Why risk it???

Even then, you gotta choose your dyno operator carefully.

And no, the SOTP dyno is not good enough.......


Love that signature line, Nev!!

So let's ask this question: What AFR range does Triumph's stock ECU tune come from England to all of the world set at ?

My header pipe glows that cherry orange color at night when cruising. At least it did before I installed the Dobeck Performance AFR Plus.

Idaho Red Rocket 3 said:

So let's ask this question: What AFR range does Triumph's stock ECU tune come from England to all of the world set at ?

My header pipe glows that cherry orange color at night when cruising. At least it did before I installed the Dobeck Performance AFR Plus.

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Triumph tunes are way lean (14.7 AFR) at cruise range then richening upat larger T/Postions on the earlier models the Roadster have a slightly lower AFR (richer) at 14.5 AFR in the cruise range so it is still lean

OK good info Hanso thank you.
OK so I have my Dobeck Performance AFR Plus set up with each fuel zone slightly different. The 3 zones are what I call Light Cruise, Normal Cruise and WOT. Light Cruise is set at 13.2 for idle and putting about a parking lot or something like that. Normal Cruise is set at 14.2 for general power cruising and WOT is set at 12.5 for WOT fun. I have been trying different target settings for each zone, but so far I like these numbers. The gauge gives an instant read out of where the AFR is at any given moment. (Although I would guess there is at least some lag even if it is only in milliseconds.) I see the zone number vary a little as I increase or decrease throttle. I was glad to see my MPG return when trying to ride normally (for me). One of the things I really like is getting all that heavy heat off my right leg. Also, I like that I can change each zone to my liking. Particularly the Normal Cruise. I can manually richen or lean it out with the control buttons on the gauge face for what ever conditions come up.

Idaho Red Rocket 3 said:

OK good info Hanso thank you.
OK so I have my Dobeck Performance AFR Plus set up with each fuel zone slightly different. The 3 zones are what I call Light Cruise, Normal Cruise and WOT. Light Cruise is set at 13.2 for idle and putting about a parking lot or something like that. Normal Cruise is set at 14.2 for general power cruising and WOT is set at 12.5 for WOT fun. I have been trying different target settings for each zone, but so far I like these numbers. The gauge gives an instant read out of where the AFR is at any given moment. (Although I would guess there is at least some lag even if it is only in milliseconds.) I see the zone number vary a little as I increase or decrease throttle. I was glad to see my MPG return when trying to ride normally (for me). One of the things I really like is getting all that heavy heat off my right leg. Also, I like that I can change each zone to my liking. Particularly the Normal Cruise. I can manually richen or lean it out with the control buttons on the gauge face for what ever conditions come up.

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If you don't mind me suggesting you would probably do better to reverse these two around as 13.2 would be better where you want to have a little ompht to make a pass on a tin top and believe it or not but I actually get fuel economy since I richened up my cruise AFR and while pottering about it would be better to be a little lean at 14.2 this is how I structured My AFR map.
I have been since I bought my PCV + AT been tempted to buy the optional LCD which will give T/P, AFR, RPM and several other functions as well it can hold multiple maps or you can switch between the Auto Tune and the three zone target on the fly tuning with buttons on the LCD display module the same as you mention the new Dobeck unit does, it would seem that Dobeck is trying to play catch up all they need to do now is make an Auto Tune unit as I am glad I didn't bother getting the LCD module as I see it as a safety risk as you would be tempted to be reading and adjusting while on the move where as the Auto tune just works away in the it's own little way keeping every thing smooth.
Please don't think I am attacking the Dobeck system just comparing and had Dobeck been able to offer this new unit when I was buying I might have bought it but I would not be adjusting on the go

I think I buggered up the description of the 3 zones. Keep in mind. Any setting you want you can have. And you can change it whenever you want. I choose to stop to do my adjustments. Time at a stop sign or traffic light is more than ample. It is that quick.

Here is how I should have described it.
1) Idle and light cruse with very little throttle twist / light touch. 13.0 to 13.2. Currently set at 13.0. Haven't decided which setting I like better yet.
2) Cruse - moderate acceleration and general cruising for travel 14.0 to 14.5. Currently set at 14.2. Getting normal MPG and no more engine heat on right leg.
3) Power - Everything from grunting under load to hard acceleration to WOT. Dobeck Performance recommended 12.5, so that is where power is currently set.

Also the point at which a zone switch point is set is fully adjustable as well. I can change/set that based on throttle position and load. I can also adjust the fuel pump mode for more/less fuel spray.

And does she Rock-It now.