JW Speaker 8630 Evolutions Fitted

cr0ft said:

The reason you want the lights dimmable is because 2000 lumens right in the eye of oncoming motorists is pretty darn antisocial. If you turn the lights off, you're less visible. Therefore, if you dim them and keep them on, you're visible and you're not a menace to society, all at the same time. The Clearwater setup also taps into the high beam so when the high beams go on, they automatically go to full brightness. Dipped beam lights are a good compromise for seeing the road while not blinding on-coming traffic, but one drawback of LEDs that use projectors is that they're too precise. You're less visible with good LED headlights than you are with stock halogens from the side, because less light "leaks". That's why the idea of dim flood-style lights seems like a good one expressly if you're looking to be more visible, rather than looking to light up the road to the max.

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I'll put money (OK a beer) on GOOD bright dips being more visible at night than dim mains.

Look at oncoming traffic. At night - the fact that there is a broad swathe of LIT road (this scatters light that is enough to alert without blinding) that alerts you to a vehicle - sometimes well before yo see the car (bike).

If you want scatter for daylight visibility - fit decent DRL's.

I don't know how it is in Finland - but EU law makes DRL function a pre-requisite on new cars.
There are cars with proper DRLS (Audi and new LandRover spring to mind) and others that use dimmed lights. No guesses which are most visible during daylight
Even STRONG DRL's or LIGHTS will not be able to compete with reflections of bright sun off chrome or glass.

Sorry - but dim lights are just a commercial dodge to avoid doing things right. And it's no coincidence that the dodge solutions DO NOT obtain DOT/SAE or ECE approval.
I've been doing this for a while, mate. And there's method to my personal madness.

We are talking about dimming the aux lights, not the high beam of the headlights.

I'm not talking about replacing proper high/low headlights, I'm talking about getting more lights on the bike that creates a "triangle" of lights that is far more recognizable and visible than just a single headlight up front.



The bike is obviously hugely more visible in dusk conditions and at night with the aux lights on the forks, even at the dimmest setting to the right that isn't blinding. On max, they're too bright and blinding. Therefore, dimming them so they're visible but not blinding while the bike is running with low beams on at night works, in my view.

This would also be a noticeable security upgrade in the city at night.

If you can then also run them on max when on high beam and get 2 x 2000 lumens extra flood lighting in front of the bike in addition to the rela headlights then that's a bonus.

tdragger said:

We are talking about dimming the aux lights, not the high beam of the headlights.

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Yup I know.

I've spent some time researching the difference between LIGHT TO SEE BY and LIGHT TO BE SEEN BY.
This includes sitting in my rear yard under a tree watching traffic on a long twisty main road come past to see what really caught my eye.
Hours-days-weeks. Trying to see what the MIND really notices in different light conditions. The camera lies when the mind is involved.

My findings were -
DAY - lots of small LIGHTS at different angles intrigue the brain more than BRIGHT pinpoints. And tbh it surprised me. It's a sort of "glitter" effect.
NIGHT - You notice the off-road reflection before the actual lights.
And adaptive curve following lights REALLY get your attention at night. Though this maybe the novelty of it. It's like watching a light snake come down the road.

From Croft's photos - the dimmed fork lights hardly register - mentally. Though I wonder how they'd be if the Headlight was decent.
In traffic they will he below the line of sight for many folks rear view mirrors - as are many of the dimmed aux lights used as DRL solution on some cars.
Put the buggers higher.- imo

Oncoming I'd want to see them to be sure - but my experience of what I've seen so far is they'll get lost

If somebody does not want to see you - they wont. There are studies that show that 80% of the world commutes on Auto Pilot. We see what we expect to - unless the contrast is stark.
Remember that a huge proportion of the world sees driving as merely a way from A to B - and most fill the drive with other thoughts. And then there are cellphones and radios and children and dogs and........

The "glitter" effect" - Strobe-ing works - but is probably going to get you nicked in most of the world. Use red&blue - most certainly.
There's company in the UK that has a sort of flickering solution - but I've tried and it's not THAT remarkable - partly because the LEDs they use are on the small side.
I upped my glitter test to the same grade of LEDS as Audi use in headlights (actually a bust Audi headlight) - and hell yes - but they'll also attract LEO's.

barbagris said:

The "glitter" effect" - Strobe-ing works - but is probably going to get you nicked in most of the world. Use red&blue - most certainly.
There's company in the UK that has a sort of flickering solution - but I've tried and it's not THAT remarkable - partly because the LEDs they use are on the small side.
I upped my glitter test to the same grade of LEDS as Audi use in headlights (actually a bust Audi headlight) - and hell yes - but they'll also attract LEO's.

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I also have Skene Design Photon Blasters installed on my brake calipers. I've had people say that they are very noticeable. They have the "flicker" pattern that you spoke of.


http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/PB_Features.shtml?

tdragger said:

I also have Skene Design Photon Blasters installed on my brake calipers. I've had people say that they are very noticeable. They have the "flicker" pattern that you spoke of.


http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/PB_Features.shtml?

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When you can pop over and drive down my spying road - there's a good chap
But those here would certainly get you pulled over and fined. They strobe.
Preety sure the amber ones would create issues too.

barbagris said:

When you can pop over and drive down my spying road - there's a good chap
But those here would certainly get you pulled over and fined.

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I spoke with the designer about the flicker. He's an Industrial Engineer like myself so we got into the human factors regarding the flicker. If you look directly at the lights (in person, not video), you don't see the flicker. It only appears when you see them in peripheral vision (which is the intent from the start). He has a patent on the flicker technology and claims that it would pass legal muster.

tdragger said:

He has a patent on the flicker technology and claims that it would pass legal muster.

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Patent Nº? - I ask as I cant see how PWM of LED's gets a patent unless the exact pulsing is specified. It's too generic and is standard practise on high end lighting. Also like to know (offline if it's not for public distribution) what legal specs it would need to comply with. To avoid issues here - It'd NEED an € number. Without it - it would not pass muster.

BikeVis state openly

Our PodMod module modulates LEDs extremely fast to address the problem (92.5% on and 7.5% off time) , and doesn't create a 'Flash' that could distract others on the road, but creates gentle 'Glinting' effect.

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Even so - this would probably fail current ECE rulings (no € mark) - therefore at a guess SAE/DOT.

Well, I do believe I will disagree (or agree to disagree). The one thing I don't like about my LED headlights is the fact that they're so directional (or rather, it's a mixed blessing - gives great light to see by, but makes you less visible from a side angle in the daytime). Having some lights on there that radiate in a wider arc should, in my view, help with being visible. Though fortunately the 8700 Evo 2 has a far wider pattern than the earlier models so that should help some.

barbagris said:

Patent Nº? - I ask as I cant see how PWM of LED's gets a patent unless the exact pulsing is specified. It's too generic and is standard practise on high end lighting. Also like to know (offline if it's not for public distribution) what legal specs it would need to comply with. To avoid issues here - It'd NEED an € number. Without it - it would not pass muster.

BikeVis state openly
Even so - this would probably fail current ECE rulings (no € mark) - therefore at a guess SAE/DOT.

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I suggest that you contact Skene Designs directly at the link provided to request the patent number and answer your questions. I would only be paraphrasing his answers.

Edit: a quick review of the website reveals Conspicuity Flicker(Protected by US Patent No. 7,928,660) http://www.google.com/patents/US7928660