Headlight Cut UNTIL start

[bagman]

Completed the mod today. works great! the stock relay used on my bike is a 30 amp 5 pin w/ 87 & 87a (different than in the posted layout) but everything worked the same. Used the seat key assembly bolt for the ground on the new relay. It's right there by everything and worked perfect.

Love this cause now I don't have to pull the fuse every time I want to upload/download the tuneecu map!!

 

[DEcosse]

Good job bagman - glad you liked the mod.

You should really connect your 'ground' wire to a proper circuit ground however - either another ground wire or to the battery negative. The frame is not truly an active circuit member and not designed to have any current flow through it. It happens to make contact because the engine is grounded, but there are no components on the bike that actually use the frame as a return.
(unlike a car that uses the chassis/body as the 'ground').
The turn signal relay is right next to the Starter relay & it has a 'ground' return (the Black wire) that you could hook onto.
If you have an extra spade terminal, replace the one on the turn signal socket, crimping both wires into same terminal

Regarding the Relay configuration, apologies - I re-used the circuit reference numbers from the OEM Twins wiring schematic - the colurs are the same though and you still follow the written part of the instruction accrodingly.

 

[bagman]

wire colors are different too. on mine (2011), the white & red wire are used on both pins 85 & 86 of the oem relay.

 

[DEcosse]

... on mine (2011), the white & red wire are used on both pins 85 & 86 of the oem relay.

86 & 87 surely? (coil plus & the normally-open switched contact) ?

 

[bagman]

nope, 85 & 86. double checked to make sure i connected to the input & not the output (not that it would make a difference)

 

[DEcosse]

nope, 85 & 86. double checked to make sure i connected to the input & not the output (not that it would make a difference)

The 2011 very possibly different from the schematics I have:

So you're saying both sides of the relay coil are white/red, which would be the wires from the start switch and the ECM?
That would be quite departure from other models where the wire on the other coil terminal from the ECM enable is Yellow/Brown.

So what colour is the 87 (normally-open) terminal that goes to the starter solenoid?

These 'subtleties' are moot as far as the mod goes, since the only wire being changed is on the 30 terminal (although you also need to tag onto the white/red to the relay coil for the starter signal)

 

[bagman]

the other wire colors were the same as the wiring diagram. There is an additional green wire connected with the blue & yellow wire that is not listed on the wiring diagram.

 

[DEcosse]

It would be good to see the 2011 schematic - sounds like a few changes from the previous gen.
But as you discovered (& proved), principle is the same for your 2011 as long as you follow the correct config for the OEM relay connections regarding the poles and the coil.

 

[GhostRider]

Hi DEcosse, i built your Mod following your HID scheme for my 2006 Rocket and i'm sorry to tell you that didn't work for me
The headlight is off well but after the start process complet, it's still off.
I checked the scheme a lot of time and i didn't find anything wrong, the coil of the additional relay is not exciting.
I tried with another 470µF capacitor, it's same.
i used 1N4004 diodes, i don't thing that could be the problem.
I didn't try your first scheme with additional relay placed first.
Thank you if you know how to solve my problem.

 

[DEcosse]

Respectfully, you must have something wrong, it definitely works as designed.
(OK - have not personally tested on a Rocket, but the circuit is the same as other Triumphs - I bench-tested original design with a simulator and it has been proven on a Bonneville which has same circuit)

First question - do you actually have HIDs?
If not, the first solution is much simpler & perfectly adequate.

But if you do, then go through all again and ensure that you have followed implicitly.
1) Ensure the capacitor is connected with correct polarity, as is also case with the diodes of course. Note that the capacitor is marked for the negative lead, as opposed to the positive being ID'd. It is imperative the diodes and capacitor are connected correctly.
All three diode cathodes (end with the white stripe) and the capacitor positive are all connected at the common node of the 86 terminal on the new relay.

2) Ensure you have all the terminals correctly ID'd on your new relay - what model of relay are you using?



Let's run through the operation of this system again:
1) ignition off, OEM starter relay is off - no input power at '3' so nothing connected through N/C terminal '4' to new relay; and new relay is also off; so no power out to headlight.
2) Ignition on - Starter relay remains off, but power is now connected through the N/C contact '4' to the common input '30' of the new relay; however new relay is 'off', so still no power out to headlight.
3) Pull Clutch, press 'Start' - Starter relay switches state, removes power from N/C '4' and transfers to N/O '5', the connection to the solenoid - starter runs & at the same time turns the new relay on, via the diode connection to '86'; however the power is now disconnected from the input (common)'30' so the headlights still remain off. At this time the capacitor is also being charged.
4) Release start button - the OEM starter relay de-energizes and switches state back to provide power through the N/C contact '4' out to the common on the new relay '30'; without the capacitor, the new relay would turn off at this time and even with power now on its input, it would be a 'race' to see if it could couple the power through to the output, to set the latch via the output coupled diode back into the coil; however the stored energy in the capacitor will delay the turn-off of the new relay - the relay is already on from stage 3, so the delay time that the capacitor would take to discharge through the relay coil, would enable the power through to the N/O contact, where it would then latch via the diode back to its coil.

While testing, you should be able to 'feel' the new relay click on, while you are starting (stage 3 above) - and then it should not drop when you release the button.

Most likely candidate for me is suspect the capacitor is hooked up backwards. Also ensure that the 85 terminal is connected to a good common 'ground' point (another system 'black' wire typically - do NOT connect to the frame! - the black wire on the Turn Signal Module which is directly next to the Starter Relay is a good convenient candidate source)

Good Luck, it should come together as laid out.

p.s. Here it is executed on a 675 Daytona - should be the same for the Rocket - http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showpost.php?p=728568&postcount=12