Enlisting Mufasa for Salt Duty

Shouldn't be any shortage of Rocket III riders with an extra 60+ lbs willing to assist! ;) 🤔:roll:
I know your joking but I've heard some fat riders out on the salt say a 250 pound rider is an advantage. I shake my head and smile.

Once we had three bikes out Bonneville and the three riders shared the bikes so we could all ride each other bikes.

I weighed in at 155, another guy at 210 and the last guy was about 300 pounds. I was about 20 to 30 mph faster than the other two guys on all the bikes even though they had extra ballast.😁😁

Extra weight on the swing arm really does help on longer wheelbase bikes say over 66 inches but not necessarily on shorter wheelbase bikes.
 
Good to know. I know J. Rangel is a big boy, not to be disrespectful of him. He's the current Motorcycle Speed Trials record holder in M-AF/M-AG and MPS-AF in 3000cc class. This bike is stripped as light as he could make it by all appearances and the ride height looks stock and appears to be running ME880s on stock rims. I've reached out in the past with no response from him, but from what I was able to gather it's a 240 Carp kit and he had engine top-end issues one year.
3000MAF176.933Ragle J.Triumph2017
3000MAG172.045Ragle J.Triumph2016
3000MPSAF174.914Ragle J.Triumph2018

JRangle Bike.jpg

Then there was Disalvo's FIM record:


2012-08-30Jason DISALVOBonneville Salt Flats - USATriumph Rocket IIII.A1.A I.3+ 3000cc1 km: 174.880 mph
Mile: 174.276 mph
1 km: 281.443 km/h
Mile: 280.470 km/h

That's his entry in the books. That bike annihilated a cylinder in the attempt (look at the intake, it's unfiltered internally), compacted it with salt internally and destroyed the piston/cylinder liner, etc. They tried a car tire, 16" tires, and 18" tires. I don't recall positively which was used for the record, but I seem to recall the 18" being used. Looking closely at the photo, I think I see ballast on the rear peg mount arm, just behind his left leg. It's also a Carp 240 kit from what I've been told.
DiSalvoSaltFlats-1.jpg
I have a trove of R3 on the salt pics I'm relooking to find what people have done. The Disalvo attempt clearly has a set of shortened rear shocks, and the front is dropped about 1" (look at top triple). Car tire pic, from what I'm told, basically acted like a parachute on the bike and killed top speed:
DiSalvoSaltFlats2-1.jpg

2 Very different setups, with 2 very different rider shapes and package weights of bike+rider, both achieved nearly identical speeds using almost exactly the same engine build.

So to me the big question: Was ~175 the grip limit of the ME880 or was it the power-limited terminal velocity? As I seem to recall from discussions with Bob, it was the grip limit during the Disalvo record, which is why I'm so intent on getting the 6x17 rim made rather than exploring adding power to the bike, I personally believe it has the power in the right place of the power band to crack 200 as is if it can put it down.

This is the gearing at 8500 Redline with the 240/50R16, peak power on Mufasa comes at ~8100 RPM, the dyno below was cut off early (can't find my 8500 print out at the moment). Assuming a worst-case 15% slip rate, at 8500 the bike will be going 185 mph which is "just" on the overrun portion of the power band, right at 250whp. I know the power band on the Carp 240 kit and it's less ideal for LSR, peaking out lower (usually below 8000) and falls off much faster after peak output, which is why I'm confident with the current build.

If it doesn't have the guts to get there, I can always adjust the cam timing, I'll have to review but I seem to recall using cam timing that was explicitly selected to preserve mid-range power rather than top-end, so I can shift the torque peak to the right pretty easily if necessary.

Mufasa Dyno.jpg
8500 Redline R3 Stock Tire.jpg
 
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On the Gixxer, (stock wheelbase) we drilled a hole in the swingarm and filled it with lead shot. Bolted lead underneath, so the weight was below the axles. Also learned that with the extra speed, we needed to add lead to the front to avoid terrifying speed wobbles at 195mph...... Took brake calipers off and added skin diving weights to the brackets . Similar scenario with the old Harley we go to do 184mph. Got that speed out of a stinkin old four speed sporty...
 
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On the Gixxer, (stock wheelbase) we drilled a hole in the swingarm and filled it with lead shot. Bolted lead underneath, so the weight was below the axles. Also learned that with the extra speed, we needed to add lead to the front to avoid terrifying speed wobbles at 195mph...... Took brake calipers off and added skin diving weights to the brackets . Similar scenario with the old Harley we go to do 184mph. Got that speed out of a stinkin old four speed sporty...
My only caveat is since this is a one time shot (as far as I know) we probably shouldn't stray to far into the unknown. There is a lot of things that could be done but aren't necessary to accomplish the goal of the record and perhaps 200 mph.

If this was a multi year development and testing then I'm board. The nature of the Bonneville Salt Flats is to turn things upside down that generally work elsewhere.

There is time to make eight maybe nine passes during the week and at least two have to be linked together with the same configuration to set a record.

For a one shot deal my personal opinion is have a solid bike and motor and stay with has proven to work for you.
 
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I'm working on a written plan I'll shoot over to you to try and organize all the logistics elements.

As you suggest, I'm focused on first re-establishing a reliable/safe/predictable baseline for the bike. Then I will fan out to contingency planning for things like weight addition, aero, etc.

Deget has gotten back to me, they're working on checking the viability of narrowing the rear wheel currently. It does take some rather precise machining and welding so the fact they didn't outright decline the job is a good sign. I have family in Germany still so getting it shipped here won't be an issue when complete.

If they respond it is not viable, there's a contingency allowance for V-rated tires up to 200 mph if they've been shaved from what I've read (waiting on the rule book to arrive in the mail still). I think everyone with a built R3 is well aware and can attest that the Exedra Max will take 150+ without any issue at all, so the tire doesn't much concern me regarding your safety, as much as passing tech.
 
f this was a multi year development and testing then I'm board. The nature of the Bonneville Salt Flats is to turn things upside down that generally work elsewhere.

There is time to make eight maybe nine passes during the week and at least two have to be linked together with the same configuration to set a record.

For a one shot deal my personal opinion is have a solid bike and motor and stay with has proven to work for you.
I agree. My enthusiasm gets the better of me. :)
 
I agree. My enthusiasm gets the better of me. :)
You sir are a stinkin genius and are highly respected. Your results speak for themselves so it would be foolish not to listen to what you have to say. So please keep your comments coming. It will be our responsibility to sort through what we can use or cannot use.

I sincerely appreciate your comments and hope to hear more of them. Who knows you may be in Utah next August and just happen to drop in.
 
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