warp9.9
Pocałuj mnie w dupę
Has anyone tried the Rotrex Supercharger on their Rocket yet ? If so is it worth the money ?
rotrex supercharger
- Thread starter warp9.9
- Start date
RiderRocketman
Supercharged
It really depends on what your priorities are. For me there was no other choice when comparing it to the closest competition - the BoostIsGood turbo kit.
[1] I had to have the most power that I could attain using no more than my existing mechanical knowledge, skills, and tooling. That meant no new camshafts or other engine makeovers. The supercharger install is considerably more complex than the turbo but still within my skill range.
[2] I had to keep my triple pipes. The turbo kit replaces your exhaust with it's single pig pipe. You use your existing exhaust with the supercharger.
[3] Effectiveness. The supercharger gives more power production since it runs off the crank instead of sucking power from the exhaust flow.
[4] Appearance. Some like that the turbo is tucked under the bike and hidden. The supercharger though is more my style - out there and in your face without being totally over the top.
And when you consider the TTS supercharger kit is British made for a British bike, well, that's just icing on the cake.
The main negative to the supercharger is the complicated install. Took my lonesome about 30 hours of late night sessions over a few weeks to complete. A shop could do it in a week but you'll pay for 15 to 30 hours of labor. You don't have to be a Triumph tech to do the install but a good understanding of your bike's working is needed, plus the shop manual. You'll have to do things like drill and tap the crank shaft, replace the fuel injectors, remove the radiator, open the clutch up and wire soldering so a good selection of tools is required. It was definitely the most challenging moto-installation I've done but I wouldn't have it any other way.
My only real worry is how my early edition Rocket parts hold up to the monster power output. I already had my cam sprocket break but I don't fault TTS' kit for that.
If your priority is just to spend as little money as possible for the most gain then the turbo kit might be a better choice for you.
[1] I had to have the most power that I could attain using no more than my existing mechanical knowledge, skills, and tooling. That meant no new camshafts or other engine makeovers. The supercharger install is considerably more complex than the turbo but still within my skill range.
[2] I had to keep my triple pipes. The turbo kit replaces your exhaust with it's single pig pipe. You use your existing exhaust with the supercharger.
[3] Effectiveness. The supercharger gives more power production since it runs off the crank instead of sucking power from the exhaust flow.
[4] Appearance. Some like that the turbo is tucked under the bike and hidden. The supercharger though is more my style - out there and in your face without being totally over the top.
And when you consider the TTS supercharger kit is British made for a British bike, well, that's just icing on the cake.
The main negative to the supercharger is the complicated install. Took my lonesome about 30 hours of late night sessions over a few weeks to complete. A shop could do it in a week but you'll pay for 15 to 30 hours of labor. You don't have to be a Triumph tech to do the install but a good understanding of your bike's working is needed, plus the shop manual. You'll have to do things like drill and tap the crank shaft, replace the fuel injectors, remove the radiator, open the clutch up and wire soldering so a good selection of tools is required. It was definitely the most challenging moto-installation I've done but I wouldn't have it any other way.
My only real worry is how my early edition Rocket parts hold up to the monster power output. I already had my cam sprocket break but I don't fault TTS' kit for that.
If your priority is just to spend as little money as possible for the most gain then the turbo kit might be a better choice for you.
Scotty
Supercharged
I am also seriously contemplating the Supercharger, and all relevant info would be much appreciated.
warp9.9
Pocałuj mnie w dupę
did all the information come with the unit and did you pick yours up in the USA or did you order yours from England. do you have some closeup photos you can send the ones in the cataloge do not show a good view of the air breather modifications / hookups !
thanks for your time and imput!
thanks for your time and imput!
RiderRocketman
Supercharged
I suppose I forgot to include some basic info... You get around 250 horsies with the latest setup. You also need Tuneboy for the lastest supercharger tune. Before Tuneboy, output was at 238 HP using PowerCommander. The turbo kit output about 205 HP but it's been almost two years since those numbers came out. They've probably optimized a few more ponies since then but unless an intercooler or other engine mods are used, the turbo's output will be less than the supercharger.
The stock air filter setup that TTS provides with the supercharger kit is not meant for running in a lot of rain. The filter is completely exposed so I had Richard build a rain cover for my setup. You might want to do the same if you plan on running wet. I'm not sure how weather worthy the turbo is but far as I know its air filter is also fully exposed though it is more covered behind the engine where the catbox goes.
I'm not certain on the boost level for the supercharger. Can't be much more than 5 or 6 PSI. I'll have to ask Richard at TTS on that.
Far as riding it though, it's kinda like that big joy you had when you first took your Rocket home and wrung the throttle. That 'holy cow!' it's fast realization, grinnin' and laughin' the whole darned time. If you've had a Tuneboy upgrade then you've gotten a little sampling of what boost tastes like. Taking away your Tuneboy feels like you've lost a cylinder. Putting in the supercharger feels like you gained three more.
The front gets real light launching at just three quarter throttle. To be honest, I'm **** afraid of the power she makes to go WOT in a low gear, but I can tell ya WOT at 60 MPH in top gear will have you in triple digits in a few seconds. I gotta do some more accurate testing when I get my bike back running. Before boost, my best top gear roll-on at 60 MPH was around 90 MPH in 5 seconds.
She does want to settle in at a higher speed than before. There's just so much power on tap, it's very very easy to go a little too fast. Gotta keep an eye on that speedo better if you want to avoid those tickets.
Also FYI, Richard is designing a new combined cam sprocket/supercharger pulley drive to eliminate any possibilities of the stock cam sprocket failing again. However, this complicates the install because the cam shafts have to be lifted to put in the new cam sprocket. I'm having my dealer do this when they look at my valves and cams.
Far as pics, I posted my finished install along with another TTS one here:
There are some more pics of the parts and info in this older thread:
I have a few pics from during my install but haven't had time to process those yet.
I got my kit straight from TTS in England. Paid with wire transfer and got the parts in a shipment. You get most everything you need except the tools - Rotrex blower turbine, boost overflow valve, mounting brackets and hardware, air piping, air filter, belt pulleys, belt, crank shaft extension, new fuel injectors, wires (for new injectors and relocating the air temp sensor), oil cooler (for blower turbine), hoses, clamps, tranny oil (for turbine), drill bit and tap to do the crank shaft and install instructions. The instructions are kinda sparse but Richard at TTS was always available to answer my questions. You will need a larger, heavy duty 1/2" power drill to drill the hole for the new M12 crank shaft bolt (stock one is a stubby M8 ). Your typical power drills are usually the smaller 3/8" size. You'll also need a tap T-bar tool to tap that big hole you make in your crank shaft.
It is a big project but once you're done there isn't any satisfaction greater.
The stock air filter setup that TTS provides with the supercharger kit is not meant for running in a lot of rain. The filter is completely exposed so I had Richard build a rain cover for my setup. You might want to do the same if you plan on running wet. I'm not sure how weather worthy the turbo is but far as I know its air filter is also fully exposed though it is more covered behind the engine where the catbox goes.
I'm not certain on the boost level for the supercharger. Can't be much more than 5 or 6 PSI. I'll have to ask Richard at TTS on that.
Far as riding it though, it's kinda like that big joy you had when you first took your Rocket home and wrung the throttle. That 'holy cow!' it's fast realization, grinnin' and laughin' the whole darned time. If you've had a Tuneboy upgrade then you've gotten a little sampling of what boost tastes like. Taking away your Tuneboy feels like you've lost a cylinder. Putting in the supercharger feels like you gained three more.
The front gets real light launching at just three quarter throttle. To be honest, I'm **** afraid of the power she makes to go WOT in a low gear, but I can tell ya WOT at 60 MPH in top gear will have you in triple digits in a few seconds. I gotta do some more accurate testing when I get my bike back running. Before boost, my best top gear roll-on at 60 MPH was around 90 MPH in 5 seconds.
She does want to settle in at a higher speed than before. There's just so much power on tap, it's very very easy to go a little too fast. Gotta keep an eye on that speedo better if you want to avoid those tickets.
Also FYI, Richard is designing a new combined cam sprocket/supercharger pulley drive to eliminate any possibilities of the stock cam sprocket failing again. However, this complicates the install because the cam shafts have to be lifted to put in the new cam sprocket. I'm having my dealer do this when they look at my valves and cams.
Far as pics, I posted my finished install along with another TTS one here:
There are some more pics of the parts and info in this older thread:
I have a few pics from during my install but haven't had time to process those yet.
I got my kit straight from TTS in England. Paid with wire transfer and got the parts in a shipment. You get most everything you need except the tools - Rotrex blower turbine, boost overflow valve, mounting brackets and hardware, air piping, air filter, belt pulleys, belt, crank shaft extension, new fuel injectors, wires (for new injectors and relocating the air temp sensor), oil cooler (for blower turbine), hoses, clamps, tranny oil (for turbine), drill bit and tap to do the crank shaft and install instructions. The instructions are kinda sparse but Richard at TTS was always available to answer my questions. You will need a larger, heavy duty 1/2" power drill to drill the hole for the new M12 crank shaft bolt (stock one is a stubby M8 ). Your typical power drills are usually the smaller 3/8" size. You'll also need a tap T-bar tool to tap that big hole you make in your crank shaft.
It is a big project but once you're done there isn't any satisfaction greater.
THE PUNISHER
Turbocharged
What cost :?:RiderRocketman said:
Scotty
Supercharged
RIDERROCKETMAN
Thanks for takin the time.
Any more info from anyone, will be appreciated.
Thanks for takin the time.
Any more info from anyone, will be appreciated.
dunringil
.040 Over
Maybe I am wrong here, please correct me if I am, but I would have to disagree with part of this statement:
A supercharger uses power from the engine to pump air, while the turbo takes air already generated by the engine and uses it. So a turbo does not rob power from the engine.
A supercharger robs power from the engine, but because there is so much more energy available from the engine than from the exhaust, you have the possibility for greater gains in boost. So there is an offset of power loss to gain with a super. While a turbo has no offset. Just gain, not as much gain, but just gain.
I am not comparing these models, just supers vs turbos in general.
How many pounds of boost does the super put out?
I have the boostisgood turbo on mine (so you see my bias) and my gage reports 8-10 psi. One thing I like about it, is that it is invisible. Unless you crawl around on the ground, you don't even know it's there. So far, all I've done is ride it. haven't had to monkey with anything. (knock on wood)
A supercharger uses power from the engine to pump air, while the turbo takes air already generated by the engine and uses it. So a turbo does not rob power from the engine.
A supercharger robs power from the engine, but because there is so much more energy available from the engine than from the exhaust, you have the possibility for greater gains in boost. So there is an offset of power loss to gain with a super. While a turbo has no offset. Just gain, not as much gain, but just gain.
I am not comparing these models, just supers vs turbos in general.
How many pounds of boost does the super put out?
I have the boostisgood turbo on mine (so you see my bias) and my gage reports 8-10 psi. One thing I like about it, is that it is invisible. Unless you crawl around on the ground, you don't even know it's there. So far, all I've done is ride it. haven't had to monkey with anything. (knock on wood)
RiderRocketman
Supercharged
Turbos do rob some power off the engine because they are restricting the exhaust flow to drive the compressor turbine (or turbines if you're talking twin-turbos). Of course, that reduction is offset by the power that the boost gives, at least once the turbine is up to speed. Before that point is the turbo-lag period, though from all reports of the Rocket turbo unit, there is very little lag because this big triple puffs so hard. Of course, superchargers have no lag at all and TTS' unit gives a torque curve that just keeps climbing at nearly 45 degrees up to the rev limit.
I got some more figures from Richard. Boost is 12 lbs at standard RPM limits. You can get to 14 lbs by upping the rev limiter. Richard is working on some tunes to optimize this, ie. more horsies!
Price:
2800 GBP (British pounds) or around $5600 USD depending on exchange rates
+ $150 shipping to the U.S.
+ Tuneboy cost if you don't have it already (about $400 USD)
Richard is running a special for U.S. customers now at 2580 GBP, shipping included (about $5090 USD at today's exchange rates). Tuneboy still extra. Contact Richard via email if interested: richard#AT#tts-performance.co.uk (replace #AT# with the @ when emailing)
Don't forget install costs too. TTS charges around 500 GBP but I don't know what your local shop would charge. $1000 to $1500 USD install costs would probably be about right.
Richard is also working on a combined intercooler/radiator that will replace the bike's stock radiator for this kit. Estimated additional costs for that will be around $1400 USD. I'll be sure to post when that is available. Will be scary cause it will likely put power production in the 300 HP range where things might just start to explode right out the engine! :twisted:
I got some more figures from Richard. Boost is 12 lbs at standard RPM limits. You can get to 14 lbs by upping the rev limiter. Richard is working on some tunes to optimize this, ie. more horsies!
Price:
2800 GBP (British pounds) or around $5600 USD depending on exchange rates
+ $150 shipping to the U.S.
+ Tuneboy cost if you don't have it already (about $400 USD)
Richard is running a special for U.S. customers now at 2580 GBP, shipping included (about $5090 USD at today's exchange rates). Tuneboy still extra. Contact Richard via email if interested: richard#AT#tts-performance.co.uk (replace #AT# with the @ when emailing)
Don't forget install costs too. TTS charges around 500 GBP but I don't know what your local shop would charge. $1000 to $1500 USD install costs would probably be about right.
Richard is also working on a combined intercooler/radiator that will replace the bike's stock radiator for this kit. Estimated additional costs for that will be around $1400 USD. I'll be sure to post when that is available. Will be scary cause it will likely put power production in the 300 HP range where things might just start to explode right out the engine! :twisted:
dunringil
.040 Over
Boostisgood turbo comes in around 2500 rpm and is pretty much done for around 5500 or 6000. A super just keeps on going through the whole range.
There is a lag with turbo's but it's almost not noticeable with the aerocharger.
Here is a comparison sent to me by Brian at boostisgood. This was their experimentation when they were developing. This has nothing to do with the rotrex unit. Ignore the level of output and focus on the smoothness of the power curve.
IMHO
boostisgood turbo is good bargain for the performance and reliability. Few moving parts, not as much to go wrong for lazy farts like me. Heck, my turbo was essentially free anyways. It came with the bike when I bought it for $13,500. (1500 miles)
But if your looking for the bottom line most horses, the rotrex or if your spending that much go all the way and use a real turbocharger (not an aerocharger) like echocycles did.
No one makes a kit currently that utilizes a real garrett turbocharger do they? That would make a fair comparison for the rotrex unit.
The boostisgood unit has nearly no lag and robs nearly no power from the exhaust, but puts out less gain. Than a super or a "real" turbo.
There is a lag with turbo's but it's almost not noticeable with the aerocharger.
Here is a comparison sent to me by Brian at boostisgood. This was their experimentation when they were developing. This has nothing to do with the rotrex unit. Ignore the level of output and focus on the smoothness of the power curve.
IMHO
boostisgood turbo is good bargain for the performance and reliability. Few moving parts, not as much to go wrong for lazy farts like me. Heck, my turbo was essentially free anyways. It came with the bike when I bought it for $13,500. (1500 miles)
But if your looking for the bottom line most horses, the rotrex or if your spending that much go all the way and use a real turbocharger (not an aerocharger) like echocycles did.
No one makes a kit currently that utilizes a real garrett turbocharger do they? That would make a fair comparison for the rotrex unit.
The boostisgood unit has nearly no lag and robs nearly no power from the exhaust, but puts out less gain. Than a super or a "real" turbo.
