NOS with head porting

[dracul]

Hombre is probably best at this discussion with Imfastoo as well with his pals at Carpenter and StarVMax.com. Gearing up for my nitrous project on the R3. Should I get carpenter, or another reputable racing oriented bike shop such as Fastermotorsports here in Denver to do some head porting at the same time? Don't want to pour giant money into the bike at this juncture but I'm seeking power upgrades at a lessor price. Carpenter does sport bike porting services for ~$1,400. My nitrous will be around the same with the custom purge/LED fogger setup for the skull horn cover I'm devising. Under 3K for custom NOS and porting. Downside???

Note the billet terminator skull on the avatar: I'll be rigging a fogger/purge system with two red LEDs in the eyes and two blue LEDs on either side of the open jaws with jets. Should be cool ****e on cruises down to LoDo on weekends.

Opinions on the Carpenter Racing "240 PAC" mail order hi comp engine package for $3,700.

May do a custom turbo this winter with Faster which should yield some additionally large HP numbers if I can raise the dinero and mama doesn't flay me first. Please advise. THX

 

[Grumpy_Rocket]

Head porting without a change in cams and pistons isn't going to benefit you much with nitrous. The switch from 8.7-1 comp to 11.5+ with carpenter's setup is responsible for the massive power increase. Without the extra comp ratio you would lose probably 60 hp (so 180hp at the wheel with ported heads+cam). I would completely forget spending the dough on head porting, and see about swapping to much higher comp pistons. That combined with nitrous would give you serious power. Hell I bet 11.5 pistons would put you at 180hp by themselves. Don't forget about exhaust too, and air intakes.


No matter how you look at it your going to pay serious money to go fast. I have budgeted 7K dollars for the complete engine overhaul on my 11 rocket. You know what? I don't think I am going to make it for that, and thats with me doing most of the work. You have 3,700 for their work yes, plus exhaust (thats 1,500 for a custom setup) plus air filters (140 for the ones I am running) plus power commander (350$) plus tools to do the job (such as a piston sleeve puller), plus dyno tuning (a few hundred easily), plus plus plus. I am at 6K+ just for that stuff there, and who knows about the rest of everything else?

Turbo, supercharger, or motor power, your going to have 6K minimum in any of thoes, plus your time. To behonest your going to have 7K minimum in any of them (doing all the work yourself). Nitrous can give you massive power, but I wouldn't care to run a 120hp shot on the stock rocket to try to get to the power level the boosted/carpenter setup makes. Thats what the motor puts to the ground to start with, and any error will give you a pile of parts.

If i were you would look into compression increase, 40hp to 60hp worth of nitrous, and I would setup a c02 tank to get that fogger effect your talking about. Sure purging nitrous can help get things to run 100% but thats a mighty expensive fog show. Hell last time I used nitrous it was 45 a fill up and this was when gas was well under 2$ a gallon!

 

[Pig9r]

I think that Nev Lush in Oz said that the intake track on the R3 is pretty clean.

I would do the Carpenter Kit. You aren't locked into one exhaust option like with a turbo, you don't have a compressor hanging off the side with a SC, and you won't have to worry about how to juice it with triple's and torching the engine.

Do it right the first time.

 

[dracul]

Head porting without a change in cams and pistons isn't going to benefit you much with nitrous. The switch from 8.7-1 comp to 11.5+ with carpenter's setup is responsible for the massive power increase. Without the extra comp ratio you would lose probably 60 hp (so 180hp at the wheel with ported heads+cam). I would completely forget spending the dough on head porting, and see about swapping to much higher comp pistons. That combined with nitrous would give you serious power. Hell I bet 11.5 pistons would put you at 180hp by themselves. Don't forget about exhaust too, and air intakes.


No matter how you look at it your going to pay serious money to go fast. I have budgeted 7K dollars for the complete engine overhaul on my 11 rocket. You know what? I don't think I am going to make it for that, and thats with me doing most of the work. You have 3,700 for their work yes, plus exhaust (thats 1,500 for a custom setup) plus air filters (140 for the ones I am running) plus power commander (350$) plus tools to do the job (such as a piston sleeve puller), plus dyno tuning (a few hundred easily), plus plus plus. I am at 6K+ just for that stuff there, and who knows about the rest of everything else?

Turbo, supercharger, or motor power, your going to have 6K minimum in any of thoes, plus your time. To behonest your going to have 7K minimum in any of them (doing all the work yourself). Nitrous can give you massive power, but I wouldn't care to run a 120hp shot on the stock rocket to try to get to the power level the boosted/carpenter setup makes. Thats what the motor puts to the ground to start with, and any error will give you a pile of parts.

If i were you would look into compression increase, 40hp to 60hp worth of nitrous, and I would setup a c02 tank to get that fogger effect your talking about. Sure purging nitrous can help get things to run 100% but thats a mighty expensive fog show. Hell last time I used nitrous it was 45 a fill up and this was when gas was well under 2$ a gallon!

Thanks. Very informative. I plan to be conservative with the nitrous. The fogger may need to be rethought. I'm running TORs, PCIII, K&N triple intake, CAT eliminator, GI pro now. So the ancillary stuff is taken care of. I'm not out to make this a major monster, like some of you have built, just create a significant uptick in power at minimal expense (I have other interests besides "money pit" bikes after all). The Carpenter set up seems to be the best route but is too costly at present. Perhaps over winter after I kill a few people on hit jobs (NOT!). Your input has been excellent and your advice heeded.

 

[Grumpy_Rocket]

You seriously might want to completely forget the nitrous setup. I bet you could see 30 to 40 whp off of swapping pistons for the custom ones in the carpenter racing setup. You can pull the pistons without pulling the rods (you pull the cylinder sleeves.). You can leave the engine in the bike. Cost would probably be close to what your looking to spend, and you have the power all of the time with no need to fill up the bottle. Probably have 180hp at the tire with 170ftlb torque. Trust me that is more then enough power to get in trouble with

 

[dracul]

slipper pistons?

Fascinating! I'll look into this tomorrow. Custom forged, domed, semi slipper pistons? That would save work and perhaps my motor. Thanks a bundle!

 

[Power-Tripp]

Going from 8.6:1 static compression (actual), to 11.6:1 static compression tends to gain approximately 9-9.5% in output, with no other changes. [This is a standard thermodynamics equation, but does not take into consideration combustion efficiency losses from a large dome.] But higher octane will be required since this is a very large change in dynamic compression if the same valve events are used.

You are not able to run the Carpenter pistons with the stock cams on pump fuels. The dynamic compression will be too high. Carpenter's cams have considerably more duration and overlap than the stock cams and cam timing.

In order to run the Carpenter cams, you also need their springs, retainers, shims, and most importantly, their shim under BUCKETS.

This is a package for good reason.

The stock R3 engine will handle 80 hp of nitrous easily. But you will need to run a 9 heat range spark plug, and either pull 3 degrees of ignition advance when activated, or run a good octane booster.

Please flow nitrous and fuel jets - do NOT rely on orifice size. And set fuel pressure AFTER the fuel solenoid.

I hope this helps.

 

[dracul]

Maybe adding the TTS charger to the mix

Going from 8.6:1 static compression (actual), to 11.6:1 static compression tends to gain approximately 9-9.5% in output, with no other changes. [This is a standard thermodynamics equation, but does not take into consideration combustion efficiency losses from a large dome.] But higher octane will be required since this is a very large change in dynamic compression if the same valve events are used.

You are not able to run the Carpenter pistons with the stock cams on pump fuels. The dynamic compression will be too high. Carpenter's cams have considerably more duration and overlap than the stock cams and cam timing.

In order to run the Carpenter cams, you also need their springs, retainers, shims, and most importantly, their shim under BUCKETS.

This is a package for good reason.

The stock R3 engine will handle 80 hp of nitrous easily. But you will need to run a 9 heat range spark plug, and either pull 3 degrees of ignition advance when activated, or run a good octane booster.

Please flow nitrous and fuel jets - do NOT rely on orifice size. And set fuel pressure AFTER the fuel solenoid.

I hope this helps.

Extremely insightful. Which specific plugs and octane booster do you suggest? Considering a turbo or supercharger perhaps in late September or early October. Have a handle on a TTS charger kit at present for about half price. Recommendations, considerations?

 

[Power-Tripp]

Plugs, the NGK standard or iridium tipped plugs in heat range 9 are a good choice. Do not run the iridium tips if you are getting detonation! The tips will eventually come off and the engine does not like these hard little tips going through it.

The Brisk silver core plugs (available from Nology dealers) allow a bit better output from the stock coils and plug wires when pushed hard. These work even better with a set of Magnacore wires. We sell all of the above.

The best octane boosters I have tested are ACES, and NOS brands.
In the UK, there is an even better one, but I have yet to find a way to ship it stateside... but still trying.

I hope this helps.

 

[Trirocket3]

The best octane boosters I have tested are ACES, and NOS brands.
In the UK, there is an even better one, but I have yet to find a way to ship it stateside... but still trying.
I hope this helps.

Better one in the UK ?
Name names Mr Trippmaster