Hill Hold feature

[stingray]

I'm curious about how all of this hill hold functions from front brake lever to rear caliper. Is the Antilock Braking System modulator pumping up the rear brakes? Seems like locking the pressure on the front brakes would be as effective for a hill hold function, like a "line lock", since to activate the feature you have already pulled the front brakes lever. The described process sounds like the ABS module is somehow transferring braking force from the front lever to the rear hydraulic system. I'm not sure how that is possible unless the ABS modulator is somehow pumping up the rear system.
I can't verify the function since I'm five states away from my Rocket 3. Curious about the "linked brakes" applying force to rear from front. Can anyone look and see if front brake use starts moving the rear pads? I'm skeptical they are linked in the typical usage of the word. The Goldwing actually has pistons in the calipers from each system, linked brakes. Maybe since my rear brakes have never really worked I'm jaded on this whole thing.

 

[Kiwicol]

Here's a Triumph site with blurb about the bike. (looks a sweet bike, I should get one!) Scroll down to Ride-Enhancing Tech section, page 2 of this section talks about the IMU & braking & page 5 is Hill Hold function. It says it's applied using the front brake, but it can also be applied using just the rear brake.

Equipment, technology and handling

The all-new Rocket 3 range features premium equipment and state-of-the-art ride-enhancing technology to deliver phenomenal handling and touring capability.

www.triumphmotorcycles.co.nz

 

[Einar]

I'm curious about how all of this hill hold functions from front brake lever to rear caliper. Is the Antilock Braking System modulator pumping up the rear brakes? Seems like locking the pressure on the front brakes would be as effective for a hill hold function, like a "line lock", since to activate the feature you have already pulled the front brakes lever. The described process sounds like the ABS module is somehow transferring braking force from the front lever to the rear hydraulic system. I'm not sure how that is possible unless the ABS modulator is somehow pumping up the rear system.
I can't verify the function since I'm five states away from my Rocket 3. Curious about the "linked brakes" applying force to rear from front. Can anyone look and see if front brake use starts moving the rear pads? I'm skeptical they are linked in the typical usage of the word. The Goldwing actually has pistons in the calipers from each system, linked brakes. Maybe since my rear brakes have never really worked I'm jaded on this whole thing.

The front lever always applies some force to the rear brake in the Rocket 3's integrated system so, yes, it's probable that the ABS module "locks" that circuit temporarily when the lever is squeezed at a stop.

 

[stingray]

The front lever always applies some force to the rear brake in the Rocket 3's integrated system so, yes, it's probable that the ABS module "locks" that circuit temporarily when the lever is squeezed at a stop.

The front lever always applies some force to the rear brake in the Rocket 3's integrated system? Could you explain the operation of this besides a sentence out of the manual?
If that is the case every time you squeeze the front brake lever, it applies rear brake. Something got lost in translation between marketing and printing.

 

[atomsplitter]

Integrated brakes means the system is designed to optimize braking forces by using a combinations of calipers. On some bikes with integrated brakes the foot pedal brake activates the rear brake and one front caliper. The bar lever usually activates both front calipers and the rear caliper. It is the proportion of system hydraulic pressure applied that determines actual braking forces. Most bikes have about 80% of the stopping power in the front brakes, this is due to the weight shift that occurs under braking forces. When you hit any brake on a motorcycle the front end dives as the braking force shifts weight forward. You can shift so much weight that the rear wheel contact patch becomes meaningless, thereby resulting in wheel lockup. The ABS senses that loss of rotation and bleeds caliper pressure off in pulses to restore wheel spin and control. How Triumph manages all this magic is using an ABS ECM computer that monitors a boat load of sensory inputs and adjusts accordingly (traction control). When you activate the Hill Hold (if equipped) using the front lever actuates all three calipers, the ABS senses the wheels are not turning (speed ring frequency equals 0 pulses) meaning the bike is stopped so when you let go the front brake lever it allows the front calipers to bleed pressure, but prevents the rear caliper hydraulic pressure release until the bike starts moving again (sensed by speed ring frequency >0). The ABS in this case is NOT pulsing but has a 'hold' electrically on the ABS solenoid (otherwise you would pulse backwards down the hill, or forwards depending on current orientation). The caution in the manual about the system not being activated for more than 10 minutes at one time applies to the long term entegrity of that solenoid (overheat). The hydraulic pressurer applied is not enough to lock the rear wheel, just prevent the bike from rolling backwards (forwards) based on roll/pitch/yaw of the traction control system.

From the manual: CAUTION
The hill hold control system is not designed to be used as a parking brake. Do not continually activate the hill hold system for periods of longer than 10 minutes. Continuous activation of the hill hold control system for periods of longer than 10 minutes may cause damage to the ABS system.

 

[stingray]

That's a pretty fair description of linked braking. Where the brakes are actually linked. What I'm having trouble understanding is how an ABS modulator, which releases pressure according to wheel speed, is somehow creating rear hydraulic pressure.
My understanding of the Hill Hold feature is that it is activated by front brake usage according to angle. That would trap front brake pressure holding the front caliper until movement detected. It is also "linked" to holding the rear brake pressure IF also applied during the Hill Hold function by the ABS modulator. Where is there a hydraulic pump that creates this pressure? The master cylinder is the only way to pump up the pressure of either front or rear. Independent systems "linked" to the Hill Hold feature if used together. I'm not believing our bikes are pumping up auxiliary brake pressure from the ABS module, they relieve pressure back to the master cylinder. Show me a video of this magic rear linked brake pad action.

edit, yeah that ABS module will get hot and burn up holding the solenoids shut for too long. It isn't pumping them up.

 

[Einar]

That's a pretty fair description of linked braking. Where the brakes are actually linked. What I'm having trouble understanding is how an ABS modulator, which releases pressure according to wheel speed, is somehow creating rear hydraulic pressure.
My understanding of the Hill Hold feature is that it is activated by front brake usage according to angle. That would trap front brake pressure holding the front caliper until movement detected. It is also "linked" to holding the rear brake pressure IF also applied during the Hill Hold function by the ABS modulator. Where is there a hydraulic pump that creates this pressure? The master cylinder is the only way to pump up the pressure of either front or rear. Independent systems "linked" to the Hill Hold feature if used together. I'm not believing our bikes are pumping up auxiliary brake pressure from the ABS module, they relieve pressure back to the master cylinder. Show me a video of this magic rear linked brake pad action.

edit, yeah that ABS module will get hot and burn up holding the solenoids shut for too long. It isn't pumping them up.

Your hand creates the pressure.