HID Headlamp Upgrade

Godd day all;
In my quest to find lighting to upgrade from stock for the R3R I came across a UK company, HIDS4U, link below;
H4 Bi-Xenon HID conversion kits for motorcycles: HIDs 4U

Sounds pretty interesting as they make conversion kits for motorcycles as well. This led me to a Canadian company that sells the product.
HIDS4U

They provide a H4 duel kit for around $150. I've already sent them an email asking if it is possible to get the duel H4 conversion kit with the Bi Xenon bulbs (high/low), just waiting for a response.

Not sure if anyone has come across this product yet so I thought I would grow it out there. If the company comes back stating I can get the kit with the Bi Xenon bulbs I may give it a shot, price is right.

Cheers

OK - I've tried this.

1) The only H4 bulbs that make sense are the ones with electromagnetic hi/low sliders in.
2) ime (EXPERIENCE) these do not fit into the bulb aperture in R3 headlight reflectors.
3) The Stock reflector is ****E - yes you'll have more lumens - but the same % will still go where you don't want it to.

Get a better headlight unit - look for Cibie. Plan reflector and patterned glass - IT WILL BE BETTER. Then think about HID if you can find a place to mount the external hardware - I couldn't.

Also get ready to modify the wiring so the HID's do NOT switch off when you hit the starter button - or you'll blow "burners" (they're not bulbs) very fast. HIDS do NOT like being switched on and off. It's why most factory HID systems are ONLY the dip/low beam. LED's are not switching sensitive.

Even so - compared to proper LED headlights - poor second place. Been there - seen it done it.

I'll chime in as well.. putting HID lights into a reflector housing SUCKS. Sure, they are stupid bright, but the light isn't focused properly and goes all over the place, blinding others and your lightbeam wont be as good as you think it would be compared to a regular H4 bulb that is focused properly. When I bought an HID kit for my previous motorcycle I thought it was pretty excellent, until I tried using the high beam.. terrible focus and all in all the stock bulbs make a much better and clearer light stream ahead of the bike then an HID in a reflector housing. But this is just my experience, take with a grain of salt and see keep us updated if you do do an upgrade!

barbagris said:

OK - I've tried this.

1) The only H4 bulbs that make sense are the ones with electromagnetic hi/low sliders in.
2) ime (EXPERIENCE) these do not fit into the bulb aperture in R3 headlight reflectors.
3) The Stock reflector is ****E - yes you'll have more lumens - but the same % will still go where you don't want it to.

Get a better headlight unit - look for Cibie. Plan reflector and patterned glass - IT WILL BE BETTER. Then think about HID if you can find a place to mount the external hardware - I couldn't.

Also get ready to modify the wiring so the HID's do NOT switch off when you hit the starter button - or you'll blow "burners" (they're not bulbs) very fast. HIDS do NOT like being switched on and off. It's why most factory HID systems are ONLY the dip/low beam. LED's are not switching sensitive.

Even so - compared to proper LED headlights - poor second place. Been there - seen it done it.

Click to expand...

Ack and understood. Thanks. Thought is was too good. Ill probably just leave my mains as stock and concentrate on aux lighing as a suplement. Ive been following your other posts in various threads ref this subject so I have some good places to start.
Thanks

Dawg68 said:

Ack and understood. Thanks. Thought is was too good. Ill probably just leave my mains as stock and concentrate on aux lighing as a suplement. Ive been following your other posts in various threads ref this subject so I have some good places to start.
Thanks

Click to expand...

some riders on this forum have upgraded to the new and apparently far superior headlights by the brand "speaker" check hanso posts he has mounted the "daymakers " not sure if it is the right name ? anyway the claim is they are really superior the OEM lights not cheap though

I was looking at them as well, Speakers, I guess I'll just need to save a few more pennies before I can spring for those. No rush, thanks. In any event, as I'm stuck in the snow anyway, I'll do some research on the components of a HID optical system. I'm interested in how the lense and reflector differ from a halogen system. I know the difference between the two bulbs and how they operate, I wonder if the lens on a HID system has a different refractive index as compared too a Halogen system.
Cheers

Dawg68 said:

I was looking at them as well, Speakers, I guess I'll just need to save a few more pennies before I can spring for those. No rush, thanks. In any event, as I'm stuck in the snow anyway, I'll do some research on the components of a HID optical system. I'm interested in how the lense and reflector differ from a halogen system. I know the difference between the two bulbs and how they operate, I wonder if the lens on a HID system has a different refractive index as compared too a Halogen system.
Cheers

Click to expand...

also the 5 3/4 inch new light from HD fits the rocket (same as speakers same price i assume)there is a post on this forum with pictures on how easy they are to install I think barbagris did it

Dawg68 said:

I was looking at them as well, Speakers, I guess I'll just need to save a few more pennies before I can spring for those. No rush, thanks. In any event, as I'm stuck in the snow anyway, I'll do some research on the components of a HID optical system. I'm interested in how the lense and reflector differ from a halogen system. I know the difference between the two bulbs and how they operate, I wonder if the lens on a HID system has a different refractive index as compared too a Halogen system.
Cheers

Click to expand...

OK - here goes. There is first hand experience behind all this. I have a mate who was making a packet selling HID systems - I got masses of R+D materials from him real cheap (free)

In a patterned reflector - plain glass unit - A CORRECTLY DESIGNED HID BURNER (more on this later) will put light exactly where it's halogen counterpart would. It's a mirror - no refractive effect. But if the reflector is useless - the HID wont help. And the Triumph reflector is ruddy useless. Huge luminescent losses. Here's how you know. Stand in front of your bike and look at the bulb filament - if you can see it then light can escape there - this is scatter.

In a plain reflector - patterned lens (refractors) unit then yes it makes a difference - you need 4300K HID burners.

The MAIN ISSUE IS that most after-market burners DO NOT position the burners point of emission where the bulb filament would be. This can be a plus - but in the main is a GIANT minus.

In poly-ellipsoidal light units (Bulls eye) - you can use 6000K but 5000K is better. 4300K not so good. 5000K is what most of the OEM Car HIDs are.

Also be aware that whilst the burner may only use 35W - the additional hardware HID's need consume power - generally about another 10W. And finding a place to fit that additional hardware is a PITA on an unfaired bike. It also needs to be in a coolish place - i.e. NOT under the tank on top of the engine.

The 5&3/4" light unit is by definition VERY restricted in efficiency when using an H4 bulb. Basically it's not (and cannot be) deep enough to take full advantage of the H4 filament positions - esp DIP beam. There is evidence to suggest a 35W sealed beam unit will put more light ON THE ROAD than an H4 bulb unit. The filaments are in the right place.

5&3/4" LED. You have a choice - Either J.W.Speaker OR the new Harley DAYMAKER.

The old Harley Daymaker was identical to the JW-Speaker. It took some fiddling to fit.

The NEW DAYMAKER is made by Speaker for Harley ONLY. And it seems to drop straight in - no modding.

It also operates differently - the old units were DIP or MAIN. The new Daymaker is DIP plus MAIN. The Harley logo is tiny (basically the position light).

I have JW-Speakers in because the new Harley was not about and the old Harley was NOT € approved whereas the JW Speaker was. The new Harley is € approved. The PLUS from buying JW Speakers is a better waranty

7" - there are more options and cheaper.

Thanks Barbagris, I went down to take a look at a HID bulb and yes Sir you are correct, they won't work properly within the Triumph headlight projector, or at least provide any benefit. Not to mention, as you stated it would be a challenge to find a spot to install the ballasts.

I also agree with your opinion with respect to if I wish to upgrade my headlights, do so with units such as the JW-Speakers.

You pose a lot of information that I find very interesting but I would like to interject on one of your points. Understood what you mean by light scatter but I have to slightly disagree with your definition. Scatter is when light from a source hits a reflective surface that is not uniform and it sends light rays in multiple, unintended directions. What I think you are referring too is light shielding. There are some halogen bulbs that have built in shields and some shields are built into the projector. This shield controls light output. As you described seeing the filament when you stare at it, this can hurt your ability to see/focus. Think of when you walk into a room with a candle, the glare from the candle hurts your ability to focus on what you’re trying to see. Most people put a hand up in-between the candle and their face to block light. Some projectors are designed to work with bulbs that have no shield but the Triumph projectors do not and I think this is why you refer to them as useless…I agree, poor design. I wonder if changing the bulb to a halogen with a shield would be better. It would not increase how well they work but would be better for oncoming drivers.

That said, I just checked my current halogen bulbs and they have shielding. Did earlier models come without shielding?

Cheers

i have been watching the lights threads looking for something that works.
the original bulbs no matter how you adjust them the hi beam will cause the oncoming traffic to make you dim them. and once you put them on low beams the focus is about 15 feet in front tire
then you better slow down because you cannot see.
i am going to harley to try to inspect the late day makers to see what they are like.
i thing i will buy one and try it out. i don't think it will matter to me if it doesn't match.