Central Sump Bolt Oil Leak

[stavros]

good tip there kipper

 

[ThisGuy]

Well, it's done. I ran it for a total of about 15 minutes and there are no immediate leaks. I have it parked with a clean sheet of packing paper underneath and will check it over the next couple days.

I had a real "oh duh" moment about the leaking bolt. It's really not surprising that it leaked, and I'm a little surprised at the design. It's the bolt that goes through the bracket on the sump pickup tube. By design it has a metal to metal surface with no gasket! From the bottom up you have sump, bracket, gasket, engine. So that sump to bracket seal is always metal to metal. So despite the new gasket, I decided to go with the recommended teflon tape as well, and even softened up the copper washer and reapplied it. I'll be surprised if it leaks anytime soon.

Other than that, the headless bolt trick to align things I'm sure is helpful, but I went without and didn't find it especially difficult. I held up the sump with one hand and threaded four bolts just enough to grab and let the sump hang with at least a half inch gap, so I could clearly see what I was doing while getting all the other bolts started.

ONE QUESTION…

One of the sump bolts just will not seem to hold its torque setting. It clicks, then I can snug it a little further before it clicks again, and again, and again. At some point I just stopped for fear of stripping it out. What's the proper procedure with that? All 20 other bolts reached the point where I could test them with a click and the bolt wouldn't move any further.

 

[warp9.9]

Well, it's done. I ran it for a total of about 15 minutes and there are no immediate leaks. I have it parked with a clean sheet of packing paper underneath and will check it over the next couple days.

I had a real "oh duh" moment about the leaking bolt. It's really not surprising that it leaked, and I'm a little surprised at the design. It's the bolt that goes through the bracket on the sump pickup tube. By design it has a metal to metal surface with no gasket! From the bottom up you have sump, bracket, gasket, engine. So that sump to bracket seal is always metal to metal. So despite the new gasket, I decided to go with the recommended teflon tape as well, and even softened up the copper washer and reapplied it. I'll be surprised if it leaks anytime soon.

Other than that, the headless bolt trick to align things I'm sure is helpful, but I went without and didn't find it especially difficult. I held up the sump with one hand and threaded four bolts just enough to grab and let the sump hang with at least a half inch gap, so I could clearly see what I was doing while getting all the other bolts started.

ONE QUESTION…

One of the sump bolts just will not seem to hold its torque setting. It clicks, then I can snug it a little further before it clicks again, and again, and again. At some point I just stopped for fear of stripping it out. What's the proper procedure with that? All 20 other bolts reached the point where I could test them with a click and the bolt wouldn't move any further.

Which bolt is giving you grief?

 

[ThisGuy]

Which bolt is giving you grief?

To the oil tank side of the forward oil drain plug.

 

[barbagris]

ONE QUESTION…

One of the sump bolts just will not seem to hold its torque setting. It clicks, then I can snug it a little further before it clicks again, and again, and again. At some point I just stopped for fear of stripping it out. What's the proper procedure with that? All 20 other bolts reached the point where I could test them with a click and the bolt wouldn't move any further.

DO NOT OVER (REPEAT) TORQUE ANYTHING LUBED WITH TEFLON THREAD OR COPPER GREASE. AND BE VERY WARY OF CLICK TORQUE WRENCHES. One click is enough.

 

[ThisGuy]

The one that's still turning isn't the one with teflon tape. Also I'd be a more leery of trusting the torque wrench if there wasn't such a large and consistent sample size. 20 bolts are clicking without further turning every time. Also the three oil drain plugs torqued very predictably. Only this one is different. There were a couple other sump bolts acting similar at first, but after a couple rounds they settled. This one hasn't.

As I said I'm just gonna leave it. I really don't want to do any damage. But there's definitely something different about this one bolt, so it's just curious.

 

[ThisGuy]

Still Leaking.



Was out checking the coolant hoses today and noticed my oil leak is still leaking. Same bolt.

I got out the torque wrench and tightened it. It moved slightly. I checked the torque on all the sump bolts and about half of them moved a hair.

If tightening it doesn't do the trick, I don't know what else there is to do. As I mentioned before, it seems like a design flaw, with metal to metal contact inside having no gasket. Could I tear it all down again and put some kind of Permatex or whatever between those metal parts?

New bolt? Crush washer? Nylon washer?

 

[R3T-Too]

I took a hit on the sump a while back myself. Hit right at the oil tank drain bolt. I had to add a bit more torque to the bolt to stop it from leaking, then again at the 1st oil change after the hit. This oil change I noticed some of the aluminum has chipped away and decided to get a new sump.

Anyway just wondering about two points.
Maybe, the security gate impact malformed your sump just slightly, and is the cause of your leak.
Also, the image of the gasket in the diagrams shows a protrusion that should cover the bolt hole circled in Warps pics.
This is for a black engine; I'm not sure of which one you ordered or if the actual gasket will cover that bolt. But, the metal on metal contact you mention sure doesn't sound like a ideal condition.

Scott

 

[IMFASTTOO]

I thought my oil leak was from an old repair I did patching a previous leak on the sump (damage from impacting a sliding security gate track). Turns out it’s coming from a sump bolt about six inches straight back from the oil tank drain plug (2005, old sump layout).

Central Sump Bolt

• ThisGuy
• Apr 24, 2017

2005 R3, old sump layout, six inches back from oil tank drain plug.

There’s no way it was damaged from an impact, as it’s up between the fins with no damage anywhere around. There's also no damage at all around the hole once I removed the bolt.

I got the oil drained today and pulled the bolt, and saw the following:

Sump Bolt Defect

• ThisGuy
• Apr 24, 2017

It seems like this groove allowed a very slow oil drip between the head and the washer.

What I’m assuming is the small groove in the head was enough of a gap to channel oil between it and the washer and drip very, very slowly.

Does this seem right? The bolt was torqued higher than spec. I didn’t get a click when testing it, where most of the outer sump bolts were a bit loose. Could it be related to it being over-torqued, or do you think it was just a defective screw?

My plan for now is to degrease it thoroughly, use a tiny blob of epoxy putty to fill the gap, smooth it out, clean/deoxidize the copper washer, and reinstall. I just received a parts order and don’t really want to spend another $15 and wait a week if this repair can work at least for now, if not for good. The money’s not a big deal, but I have such a long list of projects to get the bike back in shape, I’m pinching pennies wherever possible, and I really don’t want to give up another week waiting to get it running.

The one thing I assumed is if I replace the hardware, it’s best to order the correct parts, and not head down to the hardware store and improvise. I try to do things right. (Ok ok, you may be smirking at me now saying that after I just talked about epoxy putty…)

Thoughts?

Dont use epoxy just TEFLON TAPE on the bolt will stop the leak

 

[ThisGuy]

Dont use epoxy just TEFLON TAPE on the bolt will stop the leak

No epoxy. That was mentioned when I thought the problem was something different than what it turned out to be.

Used teflon tape. Still leaks.