Car 54.....Where Are You?

Discussion in 'BearClaw Corner' started by PianoMan, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. PianoMan

    PianoManNitrous

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    [​IMG]
    I don't know if this article is based in fact but thought it was an interesting read. If it's true......let's hope it's too big to fit on an R3.



    [​IMG]


    Big Brother will be watching you for sure by 2008 -- the year a proposed requirement that Event Data Recorders (EDRs) become mandatory standard equipment in all new cars and trucks will become law unless public outrage puts the kibosh on it somehow.

    EDRs are "black boxes" -- just like airplanes have. They can record a wide variety of things -- including how fast you drive and whether you "buckle-up for safety." The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) wants EDRs to be installed in every new vehicle beginning with model year 2008 -- on the theory that the information will help crash investigators more accurately determine the hows and whys of accidents.

    But EDRs could -- and likely will be -- used for other purposes as well.

    Tied into GPS navigation computers, EDRs could give interested parties -- your local cash-hungry sheriff, for example -- the ability to take automated ticketing to the next level. Since the data recorders can continuously monitor most of the operating parameters of a vehicle as it travels -- and the GPS unit can precisely locate the vehicle in "real time," wherever it happens to be at any given moment -- any and all incidents of "speeding" could be immediately detected and a piece of paying paper issued to the offender faster than he could tap the brake.

    That's even if he knew he was in the crosshairs, which of course he wouldn't. Probably they'll just erect an electronic debiting system of some sort that ties directly into your checking account -- since the paperwork could not keep up with the massive uptick in fines that would be generated.

    What Do You Think?

    If you think this is just a dark-minded paranoiac vision, think again. Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge" for their scofflaw ways. While this inventive form of "revenue enhancement" was challenged and subsequently batted down by the courts, the technology continues to be honed -- and quietly put into service.

    Already, 15-20 percent of all the cars and trucks in service have EDRs; most of these are General Motors vehicles. GM has been installing "black boxes" in its new cars and trucks since about 1996 as part of the Supplemental Restraint (air bag) system. Within a few years, as many as 90 percent of all new motor vehicles will be equipped with EDRs, according to government estimates -- whether the requirement NHTSA is pushing actually becomes law or not.

    The automakers are just as eager to keep tabs on us as the government -- in part to keep the shyster lawyers who have been so successfully digging into their deep pockets at bay. EDRs would provide irrefutable evidence of high-speed driving, for example -- or make it impossible for a person injured in a crash to deny he wasn't wearing a seat belt.

    Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?

    And..they tell us that It's all for our own good.

    But if you get edgy thinking about the government -- and our friends in corporate America -- being able to monitor where we go and how we go whenever they feel like checking in on us, take the time to write a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter to NHTSA at http://dms.dot.gov/
     
  2. Toystoretom

    ToystoretomLiving Legend

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    This may be unconstitutional... it would fall under the "Liberty" heading...

    I would unplug mine... people are already working on adaptors to replace them as dummy units... just as the Hot Rod industry did for O2 sensor controllers to bypass rear O2 sensors so you could modify your exhaust and not throw a check engine light. Not unlike the controller already being used on Rocket III's with the Power Commander.

    Just don't buy a new car with that unit installed on it. Trust me... if new cars sales plummeted 50 to 75% in 2008 those things would dissappear fast. I wouldn't buy one with that on there.

    It's getting to be time for a whole new Federal Government, isn't it? I guess once every two to three hundred years they need to be reminded that we run the country....
     
  3. vonbonds

    vonbondsSupercharged

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    AMEN to that!!!
     
  4. TxRIIIRider

    TxRIIIRiderLiving Legend

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    Just don't buy a new car.. :) Most cars before 1974 were awesome and can easily be adapted with a Holly throttle body fuel injection system to help with mileage.. Cars after about 1984 (when they finally started to figure out fuel injection) are reliable and good examples are out there all over the place.

    You get a car that you can usually pay cash for (well, the good pre-74 cars have gone up a bunch!) If you have to repair it, it usually costs no more than one car payment of a new car..:) and you get out of all kinds of things, emissions test, no worry of EDRs or any other computer recording your driving habits, insurance is less, etc..

    My current vehicles, outside of my Rocket, are a 1992 Lincoln Town Car, a 1994 Ford F-350, and a 1997 Dodge full size van (kid hauler). All three run very well. The truck is currently getting the A/C fixed, but I don't make payments, so it's no big deal. It will be fixed and I won't have to fork out a payment next month.. :)

    I don't know how long it will be before I buy a 2008 vehicle.. lol
     
  5. Jamie

    JamieLiving Legend

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    This "big brotherism" is by no means an american peculiarity. I'd however submit that, in the western world, neither Governments nor voters run countries anymore.
    Bureaucrats do.
    A plethora of civil servants (i.e. advisors, consultants, experts, agents, researchers, commissioners, secretaries, observers, investigators, facilitators, analysts, officers, etc. ad nauseam) who strive on both their ability to outgrow and outlive governments and their immunity from voters' and taxpayers' blame. Or outrage:mad: .
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2006
  6. DANNO

    DANNO.060 Over

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    Some insurance companies are trying to justify puttiing navigation tracking systems on your vehicle so that they can track your milage and driving habits. They say that they can save you money if you are a safe driver and they can set your premiums based on the average amount of milage that you drive in a set time frame. To some degree this makes sense because if two drivers that have the same vehicle but driver one drives ten times as much as driver two, the exposure of liability would be much higher for driver two, but they both pay the same premium. My problem with this is (as much as I hate insurance companies) that driver two would just be paying more, and driver one's premium would stay the same. Its a good thing that I don't have it on my R3, I just had to blow away a sportster 1200 last night. I think the last time I looked down I was doing @110mph. **** mid-life crisis anyhow!!:D
     
  7. Baggage1

    Baggage1Turbocharged

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    Can't see this happening man.Cop points a remote at you,instantly a database displays the where,the when and all vehicular violating incidents are displayed and info sent to the judicial issuing warrants on all counts.That's Orwell's "1984" in your face!Too much power to the few enforcers means revolt.:eek: I've heard they have a device to kill the engine electronically but havn't heard anything else about it.They can't even keep track of probation dudes with monitors.Passports are already hacked before they get issued.I think I'm seeing a patern here.Any and all devices are hackable or able to be bypassed.That's what makes this place great.:D
     
  8. Sidecar Flip

    Sidecar FlipLiving Legend

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    You part time cagers make me laugh.

    You are all worried about your rights being violated with black boxes, that's really humorous. There have been really sophisticated event recorders in big trucks for the last 5 years. The industry norm is the last 15 minutes of operation up to engine shutdown whether manually induced or catastropically induced. The event recorder also records panic braking events, engine overspeed and high "G" manuvers for a period of 6 months. Radar detectors, something most all of you have in your cars or on your bike is a FELONY to possess in a tractor trailer in most states. In addition, a large percentage of trucks on the road today (mine doesn't) have transponders and GPS location devices installed that allow the trucking company or anyone else with the datalink setup to track the truck no matter where it is and some trucking companies are installing mini cams in the cab so that they may monitor the driver 24/7. I'm surprised that the gummit don't outlaw our CB radio's though I've heard they would like to. Oh, by the way, you can't have a poilce/weather scanner either.

    I agree, the idiots on Pennsylvania Avenue are out of touch with reality. We need term limits to boot the carrer politicians and some type of accountability system in place to curb the idiots.

    If our forefathers were alive today, they'd turn over in their graves. I don't believe this is what Thomas Jefferson and George Washington envisioned for our great country to become.:(
     
  9. Toystoretom

    ToystoretomLiving Legend

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    In my mind's eye... trying to regulate the trucking industry is a little different than government trying to play big brother with an individual. Possibly their point of view is that both will lead to safer roads, but if we use that reasoning all cell phones should be outlawed while driving (another felony) :D..

    "Hey Bubba... what are you in for?" asked Bruno.

    "Three strikes... I took out my black box, bought a radar detector and was talking on my cell in the car" Replied Bubba.

    "****... I only killed two people... stay away from me you bastard" Bruno blurted out....
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2006
  10. Pig9r

    Pig9rLiving Legend

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    As far as trucking goes, they need to be regulated more. They carry a heavy burden simply because of the collateral damage they can do on the road. I am sure like everyone else 99.9% are law abiding, however they are extremely dangerous. I liked when Missouri had a lower speed limit for trucks over 10,000 lbs. Nothing wrong with a company tracking its employees. Don't like it, work somewhere else. The driver represents a big liability for the company.

    As far a being a felony to possess a radar detector I would have to see that law and see a someone prosecuted for it to believe it. Since the invention of laser or ladar, they are pretty much ineffective anyway.

    No police scanners in a vehicle is good too. In some jurisdictions tow truck drivers run to wrecks without being called and gouge drivers, in most jurisdictions it is considered a burglary tool. It also helps keep our police officer safer too. Most jurisdictions are going to trunk tracking scrambled frequencies anyway so scanners are not going to work.

    The FCC wants to limit CB frequencies so they can sell them for private use.

    If there was a device to stop a car electronically think about how many dangerous police pursuits could be ended. I have long thought that embedding such devices in major intersections in cities would be a great idea.

    As far as tracking you, currently a warrant is needed to install such devices. When applying for such a warrant, probable cause must be shown that the person is involved in criminal activity. So if you are being tracked you deserve it. In many jurisdictions such warrants are treated with the same scrutiny as wire taps. If a rental car has one they have to let you know and you have to consent to it. There are just as easy ways to track you. Your cell phone can be used to track you and if you have a GM product with On Star, even if not activated, that can too. Both also require court orders. Both those technologies have been around for a while, have you heard of any abuses by the government regarding them?

    It is funny how easily the conspiracy theories pop out as new technology develops. There is usually a greater good behind all of it and the Constitution has always preserved our rights in the end. I bet when the post office started delivering mail to everyone's homes people thought it was the government's way to track its citizens.

    The French and Germans have legitimate *****es with 100 hp limits on motorcycles. I am sure some of our European brothers care share some really big brother stories.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2006
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