Air Shocks

[1olbull]

I am looking for a comfortable ride that is easily adjustable for load. My 09 has been set up as a touring bike and i would like to make it as comfortable as possible and still carry a fairly heavy load. While the ultra classic isnt my favorite bike ever it is very comfortable on a long ride and i can load it as heavy as i want. I am looking to emulate this capability on the rocket. Air shocks just seemed to be the easiest way to get there

Progressive 444
Auto damping based upon demand and hand adjustable for height.

 

[TOMCAT]

Fournales may well be the best option then. Certainly sounds like Speedy has suspension knowledge way beyond that of a normal man. End of the day you get what you pay for I guess. Would look on the Fournales UK site and compare prices before plunging in. Me i'll be sticking with the R3R shocks for the time being. Again thanks for sharing your knowledge Speedy.

 

[barbagris]

Two parts to your problem. The compression dampening for the R3 is a '*****" to get right. It needs heavy very low speed dampening due to its heavy sprung weight, light mid-speed dampening to feel comfortable and to hold the road over normal irregularities and then heavier high speed dampening again to control the heavy un-sprung weight. This is not easy to accomplish in any type shock. Add to this the less than ideal shock/wheel travel. The spring rate is less important than I thought it would be. The stock R3 Classic springs are about 265lb/in. I have tried 225, 175, 150 and 125lb/in rate springs on mine and four different type shocks. (Okay, I like to experiment a little.) I ended up using modified small body aluminum midget car shocks in which I have modified the valving. Going back in to them for the 7th time shortly to make another adjustment. They, along with 150 lb/in rate springs, are really nice riding one-up. But with Mary aboard and luggage I use the stock R3 shocks with 225lb/in springs heavily preloaded.

You can use 1-7/8" ID x 9 or 10" long midget race car springs (available for $80.00 pair or less online at Southwest Speed) on the stock shocks but you need to make a PVC spacer. Easy to do. A spring compressor takes the load off the shock eye and then the eye threads off. Release the spring compressor and it all comes apart. Just use care to not damage the shock rod. Scratches, dents and burrs will destroy the shaft seal in minutes. No buying the rod as a separate item either so use caution.

I have not tried the comfort shocks but think they might work well with replacement springs of choice. However, air shocks may be the only practical way to quickly adjust for large load changes. Just get a pair that have the dampers valved right for the R3. Most universal replacement motorcycle shocks, which include Progressives, are too much of a compromise for what they cost in my opinion. If Fournales come well recommended then they may be the best buy of all. I suggest also using longer shocks with longer travel. This combination will require less preload to hold normal ride height but still have the same bump travel. 13" to 13.5" long with 4" of travel works well set with 1-1/2 to 2" of sag with rider aboard. This gives good rebound extension over undulations and larger bumps which keeps the wheel on the ground. Works really well braking into a corner too. Adjusting preload to raise ride height and having minimal extension travel left (little or no sag) is a recipe for a rough riding motorcycle.

Bugger me with a fish fork - an informed reply - This will be the end of forums, I tell you.

DAMPING IS THE KEY.

Air suspension is a bugger to get right. And on things with big heavy bevel boxes like R3's and old Guzzis is a serious venture in time. It put my time in on Guzzis.
In AIRBAG systems you not only have to play with pressure but also volume - reducing the air volume accelerates the increase in spring rate - NON-VOLATILE OIL in the airbag does this.

ime - Most "air shocks" will run best if the STATIC sag is run a bit short - the DYNAMIC sag then seems to sit right.
I run my Fournales just above the factory pressure setting after a wee chat with the Technical guy at Fournales. They quote 17.5Bar - I run at a smidgin over 18 bar (with no load)
Run airbags soft and they'll in fact feel hard as you'll be closer to the bump travel zone. Air never fully compresses - but ....................................................

I'm not a BIG fan of over length shocks on bikes with VERY basic drive joints.
The R3 has ONE very simple Hookes joint and these run best the straighter they are. More travel will tend to push these further toward extremes of angular displacement - this means the drive splines have to be 105% correctly lubricated - and it's a weakish point on R3's.

And then! - there are the forks ............ I would seriously LOVE to do an air spring conversion to the forks - but I can't do everything.

 

[barbagris]

Fournales may well be the best option then. Certainly sounds like Speedy has suspension knowledge way beyond that of a normal man. End of the day you get what you pay for I guess. Would look on the Fournales UK site and compare prices before plunging in. Me i'll be sticking with the R3R shocks for the time being. Again thanks for sharing your knowledge Speedy.

WRITE TO FOURNALES DIRECT. They maybe French but they will respond in English and a timely manner. http://fournales.fr/contact/
I bought mine direct - they were cheaper than the UK - came with a free high pressure pump and free delivery.
They may even have refurbished models - I was offered a set.

 

[Speedy]

@1olbull
All hydraulic shocks are auto demand. Clever marketing bit again!

 

[Speedy]

I'm not a BIG fan of over length shocks on bikes with VERY basic drive joints.
The R3 has ONE very simple Hookes joint and these run best the straighter they are. More travel will tend to push these further toward extremes of angular displacement - this means the drive splines have to be 105% correctly lubricated - and it's a weakish point on R3's.

And then! - there are the forks ............ I would seriously LOVE to do an air spring conversion to the forks - but I can't do everything.[/QUOTE]

So little time is spent running at longer than normal extension and then mostly when braking so the concern over extreme joint angles is not justififed at 13.5". But, don't run higher than stock all the time as a way to gain ground clearance because you will then have a problem.

The Fournales are a variant of a high pressure gas shock. They have user adjustable pressure instead of fixed pressure. At 18 bar you can't pump up at the filling station, nor can you use an on board pump. A cylinder of nitrogen is required. A simple calculation of shock rod diameter and pressure will tell you how much force is exerted.

Forks use both steel compression springs and air pressure to create a progressive spring rate. It is why the recommended oil levels are so important. Too much oil makes the rate progression very high and can blow out seals. Too little and the rate becomes closer to linear.

 

[TOMCAT]

WRITE TO FOURNALES DIRECT. They maybe French but they will respond in English and a timely manner. http://fournales.fr/contact/
I bought mine direct - they were cheaper than the UK - came with a free high pressure pump and free delivery.
They may even have refurbished models - I was offered a set.

Franchise set-up I think you'll find. You must be in the French catchment area mate .. they won't send to Australia I'd bet. Refer you to the Aussie agent .. Bertrand the Frog from Bicheno in Tasmania... who charges the exorbitant price

 

[barbagris]

The Fournales are a variant of a high pressure gas shock. They have user adjustable pressure instead of fixed pressure. At 18 bar you can't pump up at the filling station, nor can you use an on board pump. A cylinder of nitrogen is required. A simple calculation of shock rod diameter and pressure will tell you how much force is exerted..

You don't NEED an N2 cylinder . Fournales supplied a 30 bar high pressure pump. http://fournales.fr/data/File/moto/Pompes_HP.pdf works fine.

I have a 232bar hand pump too - Tiny volumes. Originally designed to pressurise the hydraulics on Wellington Bombers. With dehumidifier. - Not that it really matters at 200bar.

 

[barbagris]

Forks use both steel compression springs and air pressure to create a progressive spring rate. It is why the recommended oil levels are so important. Too much oil makes the rate progression very high and can blow out seals. Too little and the rate becomes closer to linear.

Kayaba now do 100% air forks.

But what R3 forks needs are decent innards. GSXR cartridges can be made to fit I'm told. And teh spring rate needs serious upgrade. 44mmstatic sag is a bit of a joke.

The numbers suggest that linking the forks an adding a 100cc chamber would avoid seals bursting.

 

[barbagris]

Franchise set-up I think you'll find. You must be in the French catchment area mate .. they won't send to Australia I'd bet. Refer you to the Aussie agent .. Bertrand the Frog from Bicheno in Tasmania... who charges the exorbitant price

Oh all franchises can be broken. The "Refurbs" are factory only.

ANYBODY in the EU can buy LEGALLY from any dealer anywhere in the EU. If they say NO you can close them down (I have experience in other sectors - ahem).

Do Kiwis have to use the Tassie-Frog?