Reducing Decel Popping?

[kaivalagi]

Good point, even if the revs are dropping off TP is more or less non-existant...thanks, seems obvious now you say it lol... I'll hopefully give it a go today

 

[John Miller]

You can change your AFR at 0% TP as well I richened mine up (a lot) all the way down to 1200RPM and also changed a few other things mine is clean on decel now.

 

[Noidea]

So Dyno on PCV is the only real answer, even near stock? I'll look into that once I've spent more on upgrades for air in and headers...

I think based on all this I'll try and do a rev range increase of f tables bit by bit until the popping is reduced...if that proves too hit hit miss I'll fall back to raising the whole range of numbers equally.

That’s how I had to fix the D-cel popping on mine I was so over it, every corner I came to, back off and pop pop pop pop pop, dyno and power commander fixed it.

 

[kaivalagi]

You can change your AFR at 0% TP as well I richened mine up (a lot) all the way down to 1200RPM and also changed a few other things mine is clean on decel now.

Just been out and decel popping is happening between 1400 and 4400, so I am going to take the 20776 map, remove speed limit, turn off O2 and add 2% overall as I think my exhaust it slightly improved on flow than TORS and then add a further 5% on those ranges at 0% TP...This leaving the numbers still within the adjacent values so it's a smooth transition still....fingers crossed that helps

I don't need to do a 12 min reset on each map load as well do I?

That’s how I had to fix the D-cel popping on mine I was so over it, every corner I came to, back off and pop pop pop pop pop, dyno and power commander fixed it.

Yeah, I've had enough....it's like a shot gun going off....not pleasant for anyone

 

[kaivalagi]

You can change your AFR at 0% TP as well I richened mine up (a lot) all the way down to 1200RPM and also changed a few other things mine is clean on decel now.

Hey John,

Can I ask what sort of increases you ended up going for on 0% TPS to remove popping?

I've just been out after applying a 2% hike on all F tables as well as a further 5% on the 0% TP rev range I am having popping for...and....it's still popping like made, especially in 4th...that's with the O2 sensor off

I am now applying 3% increase across the maps and then another 12% on 1400 to 7000 at 0% TP...but it feels overkill...still those resultant numbers are way lower than 1% TPS....maybe they were deliberately lowered for emissions and shouldn't be that low in the first place really...

When you say "a few other changes" were these to the F maps or are you referring to things like O2, speed limit etc?

 

[barbagris]

This all worries me a bit. It is all a bit arbitrary. Just because one bike popped on decel (which it should to some extent) and was "fixed" by upping fuel mix - it does not mean another will. At best you will get an approximate "fix". I'd need to know.

 

[kaivalagi]

This all worries me a bit. It is all a bit arbitrary. Just because one bike popped on decel (which it should to some extent) and was "fixed" by upping fuel mix - it does not mean another will. At best you will get an approximate "fix". I'd need to know.

But I thought popping was due to a lean mix? This not always the case?

I am applying changes bit by bit and testing each time for my bike...I've quit for the day now as I'm upsetting neighbours but how is this worrying?

I'm only looking for a general approach in applying changes which will hopefully cut down on the testing before I'm happy...

Edit: I'm wondering if I should revert to the tors map, put O2 back on and leave it at that now, I just can't justify the dyno costs for a simple after market exhaust...but the popping is really excessive!

 

[barbagris]

But I thought popping was due to a lean mix? This not always the case?

I am applying changes bit by bit and testing each time for my bike...I've quit for the day now as I'm upsetting neighbours but how is this worrying?

I'm only looking for a general approach in applying changes which will hopefully cut down on the testing before I'm happy...

Edit: I'm wondering if I should revert to the tors map, put O2 back on and leave it at that now, I just can't justify the dyno costs for a simple after market exhaust...but the popping is really excessive!

I can make my Guzzi pop by using the enrichment circuit when I shouldn't. Then take it off. pops, farts, flames ....... The issue ime is that the R3 can have one or two cells that need dramatically more or less than those adjacent.

It worries ME doing things without data to refer to. So it worries me when I see others do so. OCD 100%.

Early on with the R3 there were loads of miracle maps for TuneECU and not one worked well on my R3. For me - the absolute gem was getting a PCV with A/T - the POD300 came later. And please don't think I am a guru - I'm still learning - and thanks to @Claviger - some of it is starting to take hold so I actually see what I need to do almost straight away. And it's the low TPS feathered throttle stuff that is the bugger to master.

If I understand correctly you have half a Dave Platt Outlaw system fitted! - If so I would suggest a chat with @Nat67 - he has a Full DP outlaw system. He uses a PCV but his trims would make a sensible start when correlated over to the tune ECU tables. Plus our Natty is a hell of an engine head on the quiet.

Also - do you understand the F/L switch function? - If not you could be tweaking the F tables when you should be tweaking the L.

 

[kaivalagi]

It worries ME doing things without data to refer to. So it worries me when I see others do so. OCD 100%.

And I appreciate you saying as such, I don't pretend to know much at all, this has been a good learning experience so far and if I am walking down a path that's iffy then I'm grateful someone is pointing that out. So thanks. For me I'm OCD enough to need to know as much as I can before going too far but I am also hindered by expense...I hope you don't mind lots of questions off the back of you're comments, I'm hoping any learning out in the open like this may help others too...

Early on with the R3 there were loads of miracle maps for TuneECU and not one worked well on my R3. For me - the absolute gem was getting a PCV with A/T - the POD300 came later. And please don't think I am a guru - I'm still learning - and thanks to @Claviger - some of it is starting to take hold so I actually see what I need to do almost straight away. And it's the low TPS feathered throttle stuff that is the bugger to master.

As much as I'd love to go that way I just can't justify cash on a PCV with AT as well as dyno time for such a small change....don't get me wrong I may well go with a PCV if I go all out with full system and ramair but for now I want to keep things simple and cheap....I also have to visit a local dyno shop which can apparently tune directly against the ECU, but £350 for the privilege means I
would want to wait until I have all the performance changes done first....this may be the deciding factor for not going with a PCV in the long term though. Would it make sense to go with direct ECU mapping if the bike setup is unchanging going forwards? Would PCV offer anything more in that situation?

For the low TP stuff I assume the autotune being fitted helps a lot? Without the O2 sensor switched on the ride seemed more "jerky" in town today, could be other factors too as I didn't test with just the one change but it certainly seemed that way...so for now I'm thinking of keeping as close to the tors map as I can until dyno time much later on...even with +12% on the F tables for 0% TP I had lots of decel popping still...

If I understand correctly you have half a Dave Platt Outlaw system fitted! - If so I would suggest a chat with @Nat67 - he has a Full DP outlaw system. He uses a PCV but his trims would make a sensible start when correlated over to the tune ECU tables. Plus our Natty is a hell of an engine head on the quiet.

Yes, thats correct, I've done an experimental build with Dave on the cheap, simple link pipe from the header straight to an outlaw pipe on the RHS only. Goes well with the looks of the bike and I've seen other 3 into 1 solutions in photos before now that can't be much different in running. So Nat67 is stock except for the outlaws as well? Some pics:

https://imgur.com/a/35XuNVA

Also - do you understand the F/L switch function? - If not you could be tweaking the F tables when you should be tweaking the L.

Nope, from all I had read before now I had assumed it was just F tables that were needed. I've just had a look now at the F/L switch entries, are these defining when an L map is used based on a match with the TP & rev position? Not quite sure how the last entry for 0% TP would work, is that to switch back? Could you explain how they affect switching between the maps or point me to a doc/page that could help?

edit: I've read people are getting on better with ramair fitted as well...might be another option for me...as it's the way I'd go in the longer term anyway...

 

[barbagris]

Nope, from all I had read before now I had assumed it was just F tables that were needed. I've just had a look now at the F/L switch entries, are these defining when an L map is used based on a match with the TP & rev position? Not quite sure how the last entry for 0% TP would work, is that to switch back? Could you explain how they affect switching between the maps or point me to a doc/page that could help?

As I understand it - The numbers mean - UPTO AND INCLUDING THE TPS VALUE - STAY IN LOAD TABLES. So 0 means STAY IN FUEL. What does matter is that you know at what throttle % you are as well as REAL rpms (I say real as my tacho is 10% optimistic) when you habitually "cruise".

Whilst I am sure there are some smoothing algorithms in place - if the F/L switch is right where you cruise - then it will be constantly hunting. I did the analysis and I very seldom NEED the Fuel tables. It does not mean I don't use them - but during my last trip to the UK in May I was VERY hard pressed to use them at all (40mph was 1-2% in 4th) . And right now - I am concentrating heavily on the sub 15%TPS

Before we had the PCV option (of which I was an early adopter) - some of the valiant (@warp9.9 ) have taped a laptop running TuneECU to their tank. I don't use the Android version but maybe that would be a tidier option. With PCV and A/T you really do not need a dyno-god. I went the PCV route because there is simply no way for me to get to any of the Dyno-Gods.

But I do understand the cost thing. And I think that pipe looks very neat.
Nat has a RamAir filter I think, which I would recommend if only for easier maintenance.
I can't remember what header he has. But drop him a line.