Lithium battery
- Thread starter Mevorach
- Start date
Gimlet
Supercharged
You will probably need to change the regulator/rectifier for a Mosfet type system that is compatible with lithium charging. The R3 system was designed for lead-acid.
Expect a lot of conflicting opinion on this.
Expect a lot of conflicting opinion on this.
pica
cheeky boy ぴか
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- 2021 Rocket 3 GT
Noco a good alternative to yuasa?
Hi guys The battery is dead. I guess 5 year mark. Is the noco any good? NOCO Lithium NLP14 Or should I stock to yuasa
www.r3owners.net
atomsplitter
Living Legend
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- 17 T-120 Black, 20 Bobber Blk, 22 Speed Triple RS
As Gimlet points out the charging system isn't rated for a Lithium battery. You can certainly install one and it will work, the charging system will not like it very much but it will work. To fully charge it you'ld need a tender with the Li option to get the correct charging voltage. For the money it's not a savings over the stock AGM battery. I go with what was originally installed (best quality option available) since the charging voltage is important to unit life expectancy. The only bike I have with a lithium battery is my Speed Triple and it came from the factory that way.
Mongler07
Nitrous
don't waste your $
technoguppy
Supercharged
I replaced the OEM battery in both of my Rockets. I had a 2010 Rocket III Roadster, worked fine, no issues. I have a 2020 Rocket 3 GT and replaced the OEM battery with a NoCo battery and no issues.
Mongler07
Nitrous
Maybe you could do a search, this topic is about as popular as the "next oil change" thread! IMO there is NOTHING to gain, good quality batteries with a 4-5year warranty are CHEAP, spend the extra $ you saved on tires
Gimlet
Supercharged
I will fit an anti-gravity lithium iron phosphate (quite different to lithium ion) in my Ducati streetfighter because it has been tuned and has very high compression. There isn't the physical space to fit a large enough lead acid with the cranking power it needs, so the best option to save the sprag clutch from wearing out on reluctant starts is to go lithium. Ducati fit lithium to all their large capacity bikes from stock now. The advantage of that is that plug and play Mosfet reg/recs are readily available for older generation big Ducatis.
I doubt if such an aftermarket reg/rec is available for the R3. You would have to adapt one so you'd need to know what you're doing.
I doubt if such an aftermarket reg/rec is available for the R3. You would have to adapt one so you'd need to know what you're doing.
A1A Rider
Go big and go broke
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- Rocket 3 Storm GT 2025
Don't necessarily get Lithium motorcycle batteries without careful consideration. They can quit working with less warning than some traditional batteries. It's possible for some to go from appearing 100% to DEAD – fully. And if you think you can logically deduce when it will go dead — nah. It can be a surprise. You are used to the acid batteries taking certain kinds of abuse. Some lithium batteries are not as tolerant of the same kinds of abuse you might be used to with acid batteries. Thus, your prior acid battery experience wouldn't always apply to deduce how a lithium battery will act.
With non-lithium batteries (acid, SLA, GEL, AGM), you often get warnings, like slower cranking. But it often still STARTS! You can potentially make it home, assess the situation, order a new battery.
With some lithium batteries, no usable signs are guaranteed to take place. If its internal logic board (Battery Management System or BMS) decides it is too hot, too cold, voltage is outside limits, too much draw, or another fault condition occurs — you can get a non-functioning battery that reads 0 volts. And when its BMS has locked the battery from operating, you are likely not to be able to jump it. If the battery is locked from receiving/sending power, jumping might be in vain.
Should you get a lithium battery? Maybe, perhaps, if you live in San Francisco, where it is often like 50–80°F, it is generally within the operating range of many lithium batteries. If you live too far south, or too far north, you can get where the battery will be either too cold to work reliably, or too hot for some lithium chemistries — potentially increasing risks like accelerated degradation or, in rare cases, fire. But the heat from the engine also can affect the battery and add to the total heat it receives.
At times, the battery BMS might prevent charging if it senses conditions are unsafe. Maybe the temperature range is outside its programming. So, you will have a depleting battery, potentially without a warning. Then, when the voltage is too low, it will quit working fully, will not take charge, and will not output anything.
Lithium batteries also typically run at a slightly higher and more stable operating voltage than traditional lead-acid batteries. They output a bit more voltage, and they can have different charging requirements. Maybe your bike's system is not optimally designed to supply the ideal charging profile for a lithium battery, say, vs acid. Maybe it will only charge the lithium battery effectively at high RPMs, but not at low ones. What if you'll be in traffic for a while? It's possible to encounter a dead battery before you get out of traffic in such scenarios. You can see how your prior acid battery experience just doesn't always apply to expectations of lithium batteries, which can behave differently in unexpected ways — sometimes with less warning.
Also, consider a situation where a fuse is blown. The bike has mechanical fuses; they burn that little bridge of metal inside that fuse. It takes a HUGE draw for a split second to melt that bridge (*). The lithium battery BMS might register that spike as an event that is a threat to the battery and might lock the battery output before the fuse is actually melted, as it has electronics to detect the energy draw. Thus, it can react much quicker than the melting-of-metal way of detection. In the end, you could be in a situation where all fuses will pass, but the battery is electronically shut off.
(*) - Consider amperage that is cumulative over time or tested in a specific split moment. When it melts the fuse's bridge, it might, for a tiny split millisecond, experience a surge significantly higher than its rating, e.g., 50A on a 20A fuse. These fuses don't shut off instantaneously. A big amperage still can pass for just a tiny fraction of time — enough not to melt the wires, maybe just to warm them up a bit, no damage. But over time, maybe you'd count 22A that melted the fuse (say, if you count over the last second of the fuse's life — when you average all the spikes). Yet for a lithium battery, its internal electronics monitor the output in amps/milliseconds. Let us say, that spike might look to the electronics as too much draw. What does it mean to you? It means that in the environment you are in and time of the day, you suddenly might need to find a motorcycle tow. It is possible that the lithium battery internals will remove the lockout after some time or a reset procedure has passed. But maybe not. It will go into the safe mode — that is called dead mode — and, at times, you'd potentially need special electronics, that only the manufacturer or a qualified technician might have, to connect to the battery’s internal computer to remove the lockout. Each manufacturer does its own programming, and no one advertises all the outcomes. Evidently some brands have a "reset" button, so it might be useful to have to use on demand vs hoping it will unlock by itself, sometime, hopefully.
Also, consider the fires. Yes, lithium batteries can catch fire, though it is uncommon with quality motorcycle batteries when properly used and maintained. That is one reason why they have a computer that controls the battery power access. Well, sometimes the batteries still catch fire... How fast can you remove a battery before the tank will be on fire? The lithium battery fire is very hot. You will be unlikely to remove it in time if a fire has already started and spread. Just undoing the terminals takes time — you can't just pull it out.
If you still want to install a lithium battery on your bike, you are more than welcome.
With non-lithium batteries (acid, SLA, GEL, AGM), you often get warnings, like slower cranking. But it often still STARTS! You can potentially make it home, assess the situation, order a new battery.
With some lithium batteries, no usable signs are guaranteed to take place. If its internal logic board (Battery Management System or BMS) decides it is too hot, too cold, voltage is outside limits, too much draw, or another fault condition occurs — you can get a non-functioning battery that reads 0 volts. And when its BMS has locked the battery from operating, you are likely not to be able to jump it. If the battery is locked from receiving/sending power, jumping might be in vain.
Should you get a lithium battery? Maybe, perhaps, if you live in San Francisco, where it is often like 50–80°F, it is generally within the operating range of many lithium batteries. If you live too far south, or too far north, you can get where the battery will be either too cold to work reliably, or too hot for some lithium chemistries — potentially increasing risks like accelerated degradation or, in rare cases, fire. But the heat from the engine also can affect the battery and add to the total heat it receives.
At times, the battery BMS might prevent charging if it senses conditions are unsafe. Maybe the temperature range is outside its programming. So, you will have a depleting battery, potentially without a warning. Then, when the voltage is too low, it will quit working fully, will not take charge, and will not output anything.
Lithium batteries also typically run at a slightly higher and more stable operating voltage than traditional lead-acid batteries. They output a bit more voltage, and they can have different charging requirements. Maybe your bike's system is not optimally designed to supply the ideal charging profile for a lithium battery, say, vs acid. Maybe it will only charge the lithium battery effectively at high RPMs, but not at low ones. What if you'll be in traffic for a while? It's possible to encounter a dead battery before you get out of traffic in such scenarios. You can see how your prior acid battery experience just doesn't always apply to expectations of lithium batteries, which can behave differently in unexpected ways — sometimes with less warning.
Also, consider a situation where a fuse is blown. The bike has mechanical fuses; they burn that little bridge of metal inside that fuse. It takes a HUGE draw for a split second to melt that bridge (*). The lithium battery BMS might register that spike as an event that is a threat to the battery and might lock the battery output before the fuse is actually melted, as it has electronics to detect the energy draw. Thus, it can react much quicker than the melting-of-metal way of detection. In the end, you could be in a situation where all fuses will pass, but the battery is electronically shut off.
(*) - Consider amperage that is cumulative over time or tested in a specific split moment. When it melts the fuse's bridge, it might, for a tiny split millisecond, experience a surge significantly higher than its rating, e.g., 50A on a 20A fuse. These fuses don't shut off instantaneously. A big amperage still can pass for just a tiny fraction of time — enough not to melt the wires, maybe just to warm them up a bit, no damage. But over time, maybe you'd count 22A that melted the fuse (say, if you count over the last second of the fuse's life — when you average all the spikes). Yet for a lithium battery, its internal electronics monitor the output in amps/milliseconds. Let us say, that spike might look to the electronics as too much draw. What does it mean to you? It means that in the environment you are in and time of the day, you suddenly might need to find a motorcycle tow. It is possible that the lithium battery internals will remove the lockout after some time or a reset procedure has passed. But maybe not. It will go into the safe mode — that is called dead mode — and, at times, you'd potentially need special electronics, that only the manufacturer or a qualified technician might have, to connect to the battery’s internal computer to remove the lockout. Each manufacturer does its own programming, and no one advertises all the outcomes. Evidently some brands have a "reset" button, so it might be useful to have to use on demand vs hoping it will unlock by itself, sometime, hopefully.
Also, consider the fires. Yes, lithium batteries can catch fire, though it is uncommon with quality motorcycle batteries when properly used and maintained. That is one reason why they have a computer that controls the battery power access. Well, sometimes the batteries still catch fire... How fast can you remove a battery before the tank will be on fire? The lithium battery fire is very hot. You will be unlikely to remove it in time if a fire has already started and spread. Just undoing the terminals takes time — you can't just pull it out.
If you still want to install a lithium battery on your bike, you are more than welcome.
Last edited:
Einar
Supercharged
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2024
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- Washington D.C.
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- '24 Rocket 3 GT & '23 Tiger 1200 GT Pro
LiFePO4 works fine in the Rocket 3. The Rocket outputs the same voltage range as the Tiger 1200, which comes OEM with a LiFePO4. A voltage between 13.8 and 14.6 keeps both types of batteries charged.
Beyond that, any decent LiFePO4's BMS will prevent a variety of battery-killing conditions.
Beyond that, any decent LiFePO4's BMS will prevent a variety of battery-killing conditions.
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