Is Narrower better

[HansO]

Your basically right I just stated that the car tire makes you counter steer more which leans the bike over more and scrapeds the boards/pegs. I am betting a guy that runs a car tire and is used to the extra counter steering when laid over can go thru the same curve not having to counter steer as much and then not drag iron so much and save the money on the boards thats all. To be honest until I read it in the book I did not even realise that I was steering the opposite way in the curves. Most likely you did not missunderstand me I just could not put it in writing very well.

you have said it there your self, I did not need to read a book to know that I countersteer and heres an experiment for you to try next time you go in to a corner don't think about the bars, just push your shoulder forward of the side you are wishing to turn toward it will happen naturaly. Too many people say they get sore from countersteering but if they had learnt to ride dirt bikes as i did and raced(Enduros) them you will learn to use your whole body it is called "Body Language" the whole process of rideing is not to fight the bike but to flow with it and steer it by suttle shifts in body weight, no need for aching shoulders or fore arms Relax enjoy the ride. I am hard on tyres cos I flow into corners the same as I used to on the big two stroke dirtbikes (back in the 60s/70s usally ported & polished running expansion chambers and with no smooth power delivery you had to go in to a corner at a committed speed and in the right gear and get on the gas or you were in the scrub)and I get my buzz powering out of the corners hard on the gas with the front often becoming light if not lifting of the deck, practice that some time and you will probally get the same buzz you get out of 200+mph
Also I forgot to mention one of the BMW k1200s riders is himself an ex road racer and can't believe how far I get over in corners,
At least try the experiment I mentioned before as that is how I have taught many a fellow rider to be faster and more confident through corners " relax your grip concertrate on looking throught the corner over the shoulder of the side you are wishing to turn to and use gentle body language" don't go tense because you will be of the side of the road just relax and feel the bike don't fight it.
Cheers
Hans
P.S. yeah it also helps if you are 3 parts Mad like me, and Canberra said you wont get a chance to spool up the power in my playground thats why I love the bottom end Grunt of the Rocket

 

[HansO]

also forgot to mention it is possible to flick a car tyre as Quick from side to side with the the correct body language as any bike tyre it's all in the Mind forget it's square

 

[TriumPhil]

also forgot to mention it is possible to flick a car tyre as Quick from side to side with the the correct body language as any bike tyre it's all in the Mind forget it's square

Hans, you are definitely not "3 parts mad". You are, as they say, "all in" and your quote above is simple proof of that!

You might have yourself convinced that what you say is true, but PLEASE, don't try to convince others that it is!

 

[Air Force Mark]

next time you go in to a corner don't think about the bars, just push your shoulder forward of the side you are wishing to turn toward it will happen naturaly.

Okay, (counter steer) right corner, right shoulder, left corner, left shoulder. If I die tomorrow, it's on you Hans.

 

[Captain Bob]

I think what Hanso is trying to say is how to countersteer...., just push the handlebar forward on the side you want to turn in to. In other words, if you want to take a left turn, gently push the "left" handlebar forward. If you want to take a right turn, just push the "right" handlebar gentley forward. The bike will want to "fall" in to the corner and turn in the desired direction. I think Hanso uses his shoulders. the result is the same, just give the bars a gentle push. Please do not hurt yourself!

 

[CanberraR3]

I do find the whole counter steer thing an interesting phenomenom.
A slight tilt of the head into the corner has a similar effect too, not because of the weight of your head but because it leads a shift in your overall body weight to that side of the bike - which possibly causes a counter steer effect even if you're not trying to do that. The more you can get your body over, and I'm not talking a complete shift like the MotoGP guys, the less the bike itself has to lean and the less likely you are to scrape anyway. Subtle shifts and subtle counter steer can have a profound effect. I save the hard 'pushes' for when I'm either caught out or riding on the edge. Of course I'm talking from experience with MTs only but think the principle is the same regardless of what you're running on the rear.

 

[HansO]

I do find the whole counter steer thing an interesting phenomenom.
A slight tilt of the head into the corner has a similar effect too, not because of the weight of your head but because it leads a shift in your overall body weight to that side of the bike - which possibly causes a counter steer effect even if you're not trying to do that. The more you can get your body over, and I'm not talking a complete shift like the MotoGP guys, the less the bike itself has to lean and the less likely you are to scrape anyway. Subtle shifts and subtle counter steer can have a profound effect. I save the hard 'pushes' for when I'm either caught out or riding on the edge. Of course I'm talking from experience with MTs only but think the principle is the same regardless of what you're running on the rear.

I take it you say that in jest, Air Force Mask please say ya did because some on here take life far to seriously

As Canberra so aptly said even a movement of the head (which is connected to your shoulder) will induce some counter steer what he said is true the problem with a lot of newer riders is they started riding on bikes that handle a lot better and you only have to look at a corner and you are through it The Rocket handles more like bikes of the earlier era's where you had to have more input, the good thing about the Rocket is that unlike the old era bikes it doesn't have a hinge in the frame (read excessive Flex)

The experiment I suggested is for people who have a brain(which I suspect any body that rides a Rocket should have, that or a death wish) don't do it at high speed the first time!
I went through the counter steer tutorial for the benifit of those and I have struck a lot of people who did not understand how simple it is and when they try my method to relax and use your body by leading with your shoulders, I have made learners and timid experienced riders alike enjoy the whole riding experience more by reducing fatiue caused by tensing up to much. if trying it in a corner spooks you to much try it on a nice open wide peice of road at a sensible speed hold your self neutral postion in the middle of the road and just slightly push one shoulder forward
Phill we have to listen to your opinions so give me the same rights, I don't force people to take my opinions and expect they will take from it what they see fit, try and be a bit more open minded and give others thier rights because in my opinion if you had played around with the tyre pressure you may have found your sweet spot and still be riding on the Darkside, mines at 36psi and I don't go on to the sidewall any more also I invite my fellow riders to tell me if they think I have insufficent rubber on the road and as yet none have said so.
Also for the record before you start giving him a hard time Canberra and I met on the Forum and while I now consider him a friend he is not some long time buddy sticking up for me. I do suspect we will become good friend's as he likes visiting my area and we have gotten on very well in the short time we have ridden together. also just for the record don't think for a moment because my spelling is crap that I am some dumb arse

 

[HansO]

I think what Hanso is trying to say is how to countersteer...., just push the handlebar forward on the side you want to turn in to. In other words, if you want to take a left turn, gently push the "left" handlebar forward. If you want to take a right turn, just push the "right" handlebar gentley forward. The bike will want to "fall" in to the corner and turn in the desired direction. I think Hanso uses his shoulders. the result is the same, just give the bars a gentle push. Please do not hurt yourself!

What Bob is saying is right but the reason I say Shoulder is so you use the stronger back and shoulder muscles therefore reduceing the stress on the fore arm muscles

 

[Air Force Mark]

I take it you say that in jest, Air Force Mask please say ya did because some on here take life far to seriously

It was in jest. I'm familiar with counter steer. However, I never thought to use my shoulders to lead the bike, I always pushed the bars. I did the shoulder thing this am and it works beautifully. I am not a highly practiced rider. I bought the beast after riding a Yamaha 250 for a year, so I appreciate tips from more experienced riders.

 

[HansO]

It was in jest. I'm familiar with counter steer. However, I never thought to use my shoulders to lead the bike, I always pushed the bars. I did the shoulder thing this am and it works beautifully. I am not a highly practiced rider. I bought the beast after riding a Yamaha 250 for a year, so I appreciate tips from more experienced riders.

glad you gave it a go in time you will find yourself going deeper into corners with confidence and less effort just don't rush it and remember to try and stay relaxed and let your bike talk to you, but don't go pushing past your comfort levels as you said you are "not highly practiced" experiment gently and if you don't feel like you are getting feed back don't and I stress don't try and rush it. If you get a chance to play on dirt bikes do it, cos you will soon start to feel feed back or end up on your arse

Can't press the point any harder don't push your self be patient with your self the world wasn't made overnight or was that Rome aww who cares you get the point