"Joker, you best get your measuring tape out if you think Predators are equal length headers. 
"
I haven't measured them mate, but that's not the only consideration for me (hence the "many other respects" bit).
From reports by people who have them (I haven't seen or heard them in person yet) Sam's pipes are;
1. A huge improvement over stock in terms of flow
2. Sound fantastic
3. Look fantastic
4. Are superbly made
I would also point out that;
1. I want the power, and the torque, lower down the rev range and nicely spread out
2. I do a few "Run What Ya Brungs" but mine is mostly used for blasting around country roads which are narrow and twisty.
3. The amount of extra BHP liberated by using exactly equal length headers will be tiny in percentage terms on an SC Rocket. I know you're going for the ultimate, Hombre, and good luck to you, but I'm not.
4. I'm an FB weighing 21 stones (294lbs) so if I was that bothered about ultimate performance I could lose 7 stones and get down to my fighting weight of 14, but I can't be arsed.
5. I've barely got the skills to handle what I've got. I've only had it a month and I've crashed it once already!!
Apart from all that I'm shallow, and Sam's pipes give the ultimate combination of performance, looks and sound.
"I haven't measured them mate, but that's not the only consideration for me (hence the "many other respects" bit).
From reports by people who have them (I haven't seen or heard them in person yet) Sam's pipes are;
1. A huge improvement over stock in terms of flow
2. Sound fantastic
3. Look fantastic
4. Are superbly made
I would also point out that;
1. I want the power, and the torque, lower down the rev range and nicely spread out
2. I do a few "Run What Ya Brungs" but mine is mostly used for blasting around country roads which are narrow and twisty.
3. The amount of extra BHP liberated by using exactly equal length headers will be tiny in percentage terms on an SC Rocket. I know you're going for the ultimate, Hombre, and good luck to you, but I'm not.
4. I'm an FB weighing 21 stones (294lbs) so if I was that bothered about ultimate performance I could lose 7 stones and get down to my fighting weight of 14, but I can't be arsed.
5. I've barely got the skills to handle what I've got. I've only had it a month and I've crashed it once already!!
Apart from all that I'm shallow, and Sam's pipes give the ultimate combination of performance, looks and sound.
trackerjack
.040 Over
A true equal length header has already been built for the R III.
This one was designed with maximum performances in mind by a french exhaust builder two years ago.
trackerjack
.040 Over
Not all !
The builder told me that the results with that 3 into 2 exhaust (two big mufflers for a not too loud exhaust) were excellent.
But as you see, that's not a great looking exhaust for a custom bike where the look is an important point.
I still believe that the Predators are a good compromise between a good performance design and a good look.
hombre
Nitrous
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2006
- Messages
- 1,021
I'm not trying to tell you how to spend your money, Joker... just asking why neither Jars nor Preds are equal length.
You're wrong about #3 above... a good header system will liberate MORE HP on a supercharged R3, not a smaller percentage.
BTW, since we're not getting any answers from Sam, what are the Preds costing you?
Very nice, Jack! That's a nicely designed equal length system, albeit with short primary tubes. Any HP/TQ numbers?
Neville Lush
www.nevillelushracing.com
- Joined
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- 1,054
- Location
- Victor Harbor South Australia
- Ride
- Speed Triple 1050 Dirt Track sidecar,H2750Roadrace sidecar W800 Kawasaki
!
we found those figure with just a PC and mapping,not Tuneboy and ign work etc etc.There is always more to be had,one just needs a customer with enough desire/money to find it. I am sure what Sam offers is what most people want,no one else is rushing about doing the same.I am not selling headers because it is impractical and not worth the time spent unless people pay me for it.It is my job not a hobby.Reminds me off all the pistons laying about here that people ordered and now "changed their mind".
we found those figure with just a PC and mapping,not Tuneboy and ign work etc etc.There is always more to be had,one just needs a customer with enough desire/money to find it. I am sure what Sam offers is what most people want,no one else is rushing about doing the same.I am not selling headers because it is impractical and not worth the time spent unless people pay me for it.It is my job not a hobby.Reminds me off all the pistons laying about here that people ordered and now "changed their mind".
"I'm not trying to tell you how to spend your money, Joker... just asking why neither Jars nor Preds are equal length."
I didn't think you were mate, I was just trying to say why I'd gone for the Preds and what I wanted from them. They were the best I'd seen as far as headers were concerned, but then I hadn't seen many.
"You're wrong about #3 above... a good header system will liberate MORE HP on a supercharged R3, not a smaller percentage."
What I was trying to say was that if you gain 20HP fitting Preds onto a bike with no SC (on top of 120ish) that is a 16.66% gain. To get the same percentage gain on an SC Rocket (about 240 BHP) you would have to gain 40 BHP for it to be the same percentage gain. I'd like to think that's possible, but I have my doubts. By the same token any gain over Preds produced by an equal length header system would be a small percentage of the overall HP. The numbers are rounded estimates and hypothetical, but you get the drift.
"BTW, since we're not getting any answers from Sam, what are the Preds costing you?"
I wouldn't like to say. If Sam wants to publish his prices he can. If he doesn't I don't think it's my place to. I'm happy with what Sam has quoted me and he is eager to see what his system will do on an SC Rocket so he may be taking that into consideration. If it transpires that it works well I would not wish to preclude him from charging others more than he has me. Even if that isn't the case, and he ends up selling to other SC users at the same, or less, it was a deal concluded in private that I feel honour bound to keep that way. Sorry. You have generously shared information helpful to me, and any information of MINE that would help you I would gladly share, but I don't think this is my information to share. Unfortunately I am such a dunce in the spannering / engineering / tuning / etc / etc departments the chances of me having any information useful to you are about the same as my chances of Gold in the London Olympics in gymnastics.
I didn't think you were mate, I was just trying to say why I'd gone for the Preds and what I wanted from them. They were the best I'd seen as far as headers were concerned, but then I hadn't seen many.
"You're wrong about #3 above... a good header system will liberate MORE HP on a supercharged R3, not a smaller percentage."
What I was trying to say was that if you gain 20HP fitting Preds onto a bike with no SC (on top of 120ish) that is a 16.66% gain. To get the same percentage gain on an SC Rocket (about 240 BHP) you would have to gain 40 BHP for it to be the same percentage gain. I'd like to think that's possible, but I have my doubts. By the same token any gain over Preds produced by an equal length header system would be a small percentage of the overall HP. The numbers are rounded estimates and hypothetical, but you get the drift.
"BTW, since we're not getting any answers from Sam, what are the Preds costing you?"
I wouldn't like to say. If Sam wants to publish his prices he can. If he doesn't I don't think it's my place to. I'm happy with what Sam has quoted me and he is eager to see what his system will do on an SC Rocket so he may be taking that into consideration. If it transpires that it works well I would not wish to preclude him from charging others more than he has me. Even if that isn't the case, and he ends up selling to other SC users at the same, or less, it was a deal concluded in private that I feel honour bound to keep that way. Sorry. You have generously shared information helpful to me, and any information of MINE that would help you I would gladly share, but I don't think this is my information to share. Unfortunately I am such a dunce in the spannering / engineering / tuning / etc / etc departments the chances of me having any information useful to you are about the same as my chances of Gold in the London Olympics in gymnastics.
hombre
Nitrous
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2006
- Messages
- 1,021
Paul, you miss the point that the percentage gain you quote with Predators includes the 10 HP given by triple filters alone! Read again the gain Nev obtained with equal length headers and under seat filter... now that's impressive!
Can anyone explain why the price of Predators is such a huge secret?
Does Sam require non-disclosure of pricing from customers??
When will we hear from Sam?
Can anyone explain why the price of Predators is such a huge secret?
Does Sam require non-disclosure of pricing from customers??
When will we hear from Sam?
wilbur-t
Top Fuel
Does Sam require non-disclosure of pricing from customers??
When will we hea
Inquiring minds want to know.
Hombre, is your bike going to be ready for the first Maxton run?
travelguy
Turbocharged
i seriously doubt you are interested hombre.
it's a shame actually. id love to see what dynod differences there actually are between equal length and non. however that would require same bike and appropriate tunes for each.
i built these systems to give what i believe to be the best performance and style. i designed and built so many configureations i have lost track of all the variables i have tried. some 300 dyno runs later i like the results. i did not do this to manufacture exhaust systems. i was on a quest to build the best i could for my bike. others have shown interest so there you are. if you had even the slightest clue what the materials cost alone on these are you would see i am surely not buying a house in spain much less recooping my r&d.
as for your not being impressed... well , since you havent ridden on a set and apparently think that power curves and performance are just about peak numbers i would refer you to those that have had the "other" systems and now have mine.
i find it interesting that given i have tried some 12 different styling designs , 3 different od tubes, various tube lengths, some 30 different collector designs and the resulting combinations of the above that you feel that you are somehow "informed" on what i should do.
it's rather obvious you are simply trying to stir up **** YET again.
as far as "when shall we hear from sam". i have a business to run and classes to attened so bugger off.
and on a side note... guess you didnt research to indepthly the tire options on that size front wheel.. ooops well perhaps you did and that's another matter.
it's a shame actually. id love to see what dynod differences there actually are between equal length and non. however that would require same bike and appropriate tunes for each.
i built these systems to give what i believe to be the best performance and style. i designed and built so many configureations i have lost track of all the variables i have tried. some 300 dyno runs later i like the results. i did not do this to manufacture exhaust systems. i was on a quest to build the best i could for my bike. others have shown interest so there you are. if you had even the slightest clue what the materials cost alone on these are you would see i am surely not buying a house in spain much less recooping my r&d.
as for your not being impressed... well , since you havent ridden on a set and apparently think that power curves and performance are just about peak numbers i would refer you to those that have had the "other" systems and now have mine.
i find it interesting that given i have tried some 12 different styling designs , 3 different od tubes, various tube lengths, some 30 different collector designs and the resulting combinations of the above that you feel that you are somehow "informed" on what i should do.
it's rather obvious you are simply trying to stir up **** YET again.
as far as "when shall we hear from sam". i have a business to run and classes to attened so bugger off.
and on a side note... guess you didnt research to indepthly the tire options on that size front wheel.. ooops well perhaps you did and that's another matter.
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