Where is the dang Starter relay on the R3T?!?
- Thread starter Boog
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Boog
Traveling Story Teller
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Well, that didn't last overnight. I went to start the bike for work, turned the key, gauges came on, hit the starter button, I heard the now familiar click from the front of the bike and everything went dead, no horn, not lights anywhere. I am suspecting it must be the battery leads at this point. @Joesmoe I will PM you.
@DEcosse Ken, thanks for all you help so far. I will check the ignition switch yet as it may still be part of the overall issue though I am leaning more towards the battery cables and dirtiness/corrosion matters. I have re-read you keyless system and may go that route once I learn more about my own problems here.
@DEcosse Ken, thanks for all you help so far. I will check the ignition switch yet as it may still be part of the overall issue though I am leaning more towards the battery cables and dirtiness/corrosion matters. I have re-read you keyless system and may go that route once I learn more about my own problems here.
Jag
Living Legend
Starter solenoid.
DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
The click you are hearing at the front is most likely the aux lights relay - you have a Touring and the lights are switched off by that relay just behind the steering head, when the starter is operated.
That is the only possible component at the front of the bike that would click (It is always going to happen - you are just more conscious of it because you are no hearing only the click and not the starter running!)
Again, if everything becomes non-operational at that point, it suggest a high potential drop from the battery and as soon as you increase the current load, it exacerbates the situation and the primary connection is broken.
You really need to break out a voltmeter to get a real picture of what is actually going on. If you don't have one, it is a god tool to have - you don't have to spend a lot of money, Sears has some good options in the <$30 kind of range.
I can guide you as to where to check, once the bike is in this 'fault' condition.
In the meantime, do take a good look at that Fuse 11 for any signs of problems there; and also be sure to check the negative of the battery and the ground at the motor.
There is something else I just noticed on the schematic that I have not really paid any attention to before - the schematic shows (item 68) a disconnect (connector set) between the battery and the Fuse Panel - look for that and also inspect that element. I can't tell you specifically where to find it but it has to be physically somewhere in that region between battery and fusebox. I did not show that in my equivalent circuit I posted earlier and that connector would go between battery and fuse.
I think it's important to resolve what is causing the issue - I don't believe it is the key-switch therefor the KeyLess would not remedy this problem.
You should only consider the KeyLess system if it is something you really want for its own merits, not to potentially (and that is important word here) 'fix' something.
But once we work through this together, be happy to discuss that with you.
I might have said same - but that does not explain the horn/brake lights becoming non-functional, so that suggests something pointing more to the power origin.jag said:
warp9.9
Pocałuj mnie w dupę
While I hope you get this problem solved quickly. I can't help but to comment on how much I enjoy learning from Ken's post. 
DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
So @Joesmoe is generously going over to @Boog tomorrow to help with some troubleshooting
Here are some things to check - but first another simplified diagram - this time of the actual schematic reduced to just the primary power distribution circuit;
I've also added arrows to show the current path
So again, current leaves battery positive;
first stop along the route is that in-line connector;
then from that to Fuse 11 in the Fuse Panel;
One the downstream side of Fuse 11, there is a common buss that feeds Fuses 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7;
Output of Fuse 2 goes to pin 1 of the key-switch connector via the White/Blue wire and output of Fuse 4 feeds pin 6 of the key-switch connector via the Orange wire;
When the key is turned on, pin 1 connects to pin 4 and to pin 5 (important to note that pins 4 & 5 are not actually connected to each - only when the switch is closed are 1, 4 & 5 all connected together)
Also, pin 6 is connected to pin 8. (incidentally the graphic for the connections in the key-switch is WRONG in the Factory schematic - I have corrected it in the diagram above)
Note that pins 1 & 6 are not connected to each and are separate distinct circuits coming from separate fuses.
Then from the outputs of the switch;
pin 4 goes on to Fuse 9 via the Blue/Yellow wire (this ultimately feeds the starter/headlight relay)
pin 5 goes on to Fuse 5 via the Green wire (this ultimately feeds the ignition circuit and powers the ECU and Instruments
Pin 8 goes on to feed the Horn and the Brake Lights (this output does NOT go back through the Fuse Panel) via the Orange/Green wire.
(we can ignore the remaining pole of the switch for now - the one that connects pin 2 to pin 3 - that completes the park light circuit but first needs to have power present on pin 4)
We have established that NEITHER Ignition NOR Headlight is currently operational with key ON;
additionally it was confirmed that NEITHER Horn NOR Brake Light works either;
It is unlikely that all three of these connections (1 to 4 and 1 to 5 and 6 to 8) would all have a bad connection at the connector plug or internally at the switch plates;
so a reasonable prediction that there in NO power on BOTH Pin 1 NOR on Pin 6 (& of course no input power means no output power)
So we should back up to the common point for all these circuits - that would be the output of Fuse 11 which is the common buss of fuses 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7.
The best way to measure voltage at the Fuse Box is to apply the meter probe to the metal tab on the top of the Fuse - that way Fuse remains in circuit, yet we can measure voltage at that node.
Leave the meter negative probe on the battery negative and then touch the red probe to the metal tabs of the Fuse of interest
(this is not an R3 fuse panel but principle is the same)
Hopefully the bike is in the FAULT state i.e. nothing actually becomes powered when the key is turned ON
ALL voltage measurements should be made leaving the negative probe on the battery negative and measure at the directed point with the Red Probe,
Leave switch OFF initially
Preliminary - Inspect BOTH battery Terminal Connections, the IN-Line connector and Fuse 11 - these should all be good, tight connections with no sign of burning, arcing or melting.
Fuse 11 should be a good snug fit in its blades.
1. Measure at Battery Positive - this should be >12.5V minimum and hopefully better
Turn the Key ON (even if it does not appear to do anything) - if it DOES turn on, try to provoke the faulty condition - it needs to be in faulty mode to diagnose properly.
2. Does the battery voltage change? If it changes (drops) significantly then the problem is the battery itself if it does not, then proceed ......
Leave key-switch ON
3. Measure at both sides of Fuse 11 - compare this voltage to that on the battery positive (repeat that check as may be required);
If there is a significant drop in voltage between the measurement at the battery and at Fuse 11, the problem would be at the in-line connector.
If voltages still good at Fuse 11 (both sides) proceed .......
4. Check on both sides of fuses 2 & 4 - again any voltage difference from Fuse 11 would indicate a connection problem
If those voltages are still good (and we still have fault condition) proceed ......
5. Go to the Key-Switch connector under tank: take a needle and puncture it through the insulation of the following wires and check for voltage touching probe to the needle
Inputs:
Pin 1 (White/Blue wire)
Pin 6 (Orange wire)
Outputs:
Pin 4 (Blue/Yellow wire)
Pin 5 (Green Wire)
Pin 8 (Orange/Green Wire)
If you have voltage at 1 & 6, but NOT at 4, 5 & 8, then switch is not completing the circuits.
Disconnect the connector plug and inspect for burnt terminals on both male & female sides
6. If you DO have voltage measured on the outputs, pins 4, 5 & 8 from step 5 (but the circuits are STILL not alive) then the problem would be on the battery negative lug not making proper connection to the battery post. (or the post is potentially broken internally)
If none of that yields anything, take two aspirins & call me in the morning!
(actually get in touch and report progress)
Good Luck!
Here are some things to check - but first another simplified diagram - this time of the actual schematic reduced to just the primary power distribution circuit;
I've also added arrows to show the current path
So again, current leaves battery positive;
first stop along the route is that in-line connector;
then from that to Fuse 11 in the Fuse Panel;
One the downstream side of Fuse 11, there is a common buss that feeds Fuses 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7;
Output of Fuse 2 goes to pin 1 of the key-switch connector via the White/Blue wire and output of Fuse 4 feeds pin 6 of the key-switch connector via the Orange wire;
When the key is turned on, pin 1 connects to pin 4 and to pin 5 (important to note that pins 4 & 5 are not actually connected to each - only when the switch is closed are 1, 4 & 5 all connected together)
Also, pin 6 is connected to pin 8. (incidentally the graphic for the connections in the key-switch is WRONG in the Factory schematic - I have corrected it in the diagram above)
Note that pins 1 & 6 are not connected to each and are separate distinct circuits coming from separate fuses.
Then from the outputs of the switch;
pin 4 goes on to Fuse 9 via the Blue/Yellow wire (this ultimately feeds the starter/headlight relay)
pin 5 goes on to Fuse 5 via the Green wire (this ultimately feeds the ignition circuit and powers the ECU and Instruments
Pin 8 goes on to feed the Horn and the Brake Lights (this output does NOT go back through the Fuse Panel) via the Orange/Green wire.
(we can ignore the remaining pole of the switch for now - the one that connects pin 2 to pin 3 - that completes the park light circuit but first needs to have power present on pin 4)
We have established that NEITHER Ignition NOR Headlight is currently operational with key ON;
additionally it was confirmed that NEITHER Horn NOR Brake Light works either;
It is unlikely that all three of these connections (1 to 4 and 1 to 5 and 6 to 8) would all have a bad connection at the connector plug or internally at the switch plates;
so a reasonable prediction that there in NO power on BOTH Pin 1 NOR on Pin 6 (& of course no input power means no output power)
So we should back up to the common point for all these circuits - that would be the output of Fuse 11 which is the common buss of fuses 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7.
The best way to measure voltage at the Fuse Box is to apply the meter probe to the metal tab on the top of the Fuse - that way Fuse remains in circuit, yet we can measure voltage at that node.
Leave the meter negative probe on the battery negative and then touch the red probe to the metal tabs of the Fuse of interest
(this is not an R3 fuse panel but principle is the same)
Hopefully the bike is in the FAULT state i.e. nothing actually becomes powered when the key is turned ON
ALL voltage measurements should be made leaving the negative probe on the battery negative and measure at the directed point with the Red Probe,
Leave switch OFF initially
Preliminary - Inspect BOTH battery Terminal Connections, the IN-Line connector and Fuse 11 - these should all be good, tight connections with no sign of burning, arcing or melting.
Fuse 11 should be a good snug fit in its blades.
1. Measure at Battery Positive - this should be >12.5V minimum and hopefully better
Turn the Key ON (even if it does not appear to do anything) - if it DOES turn on, try to provoke the faulty condition - it needs to be in faulty mode to diagnose properly.
2. Does the battery voltage change? If it changes (drops) significantly then the problem is the battery itself if it does not, then proceed ......
Leave key-switch ON
3. Measure at both sides of Fuse 11 - compare this voltage to that on the battery positive (repeat that check as may be required);
If there is a significant drop in voltage between the measurement at the battery and at Fuse 11, the problem would be at the in-line connector.
If voltages still good at Fuse 11 (both sides) proceed .......
4. Check on both sides of fuses 2 & 4 - again any voltage difference from Fuse 11 would indicate a connection problem
If those voltages are still good (and we still have fault condition) proceed ......
5. Go to the Key-Switch connector under tank: take a needle and puncture it through the insulation of the following wires and check for voltage touching probe to the needle
Inputs:
Pin 1 (White/Blue wire)
Pin 6 (Orange wire)
Outputs:
Pin 4 (Blue/Yellow wire)
Pin 5 (Green Wire)
Pin 8 (Orange/Green Wire)
If you have voltage at 1 & 6, but NOT at 4, 5 & 8, then switch is not completing the circuits.
Disconnect the connector plug and inspect for burnt terminals on both male & female sides
6. If you DO have voltage measured on the outputs, pins 4, 5 & 8 from step 5 (but the circuits are STILL not alive) then the problem would be on the battery negative lug not making proper connection to the battery post. (or the post is potentially broken internally)
If none of that yields anything, take two aspirins & call me in the morning!
(actually get in touch and report progress)
Good Luck!
Bob R
Living Legend
Boog
Traveling Story Teller
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I am convinced the negative cable is bad. Moving it away from the connection will allow power to flow. Local dealer does not have a new one, I planned to put 2 new cable on. At present, I added a used negative cable as a temporary fix. @Joesmoe is coming round again to day and we will trouble shoot more to see what else needs replacing so I am not done yet.
barbagris
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Interested to see how this is resolved. In Automotive electrics - Whenever there is doubt - generally there is NO DOUBT - it's an Earth fault.
barbagris
Mad Scientist
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Most certainly agree - Ken's ability to make what sounds complex into something that really is not is inspiring.I can't help but to comment on how much I enjoy learning from Ken's post.
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