pastorfreak

Supercharged
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
290
Location
Kalamazoo, Mi
So what are everyone thoughts about the Tune Boy? The reason I am asking is my Rocket it supposed to come in this week and I am looking at what I should do before even picking it up exhaust (already talked about), Tune Boy etc? Looking for some input. The Chrome pieces etc I can do a bit at a time. But I am interested in what people did for their Rocket and if they are glad they did or wished they would have waited or went another way.

Freak
 

dougl

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
2,373
Location
Reno, NV
Ride
2007 R3 Classic
So what are everyone thoughts about the Tune Boy? The reason I am asking is my Rocket it supposed to come in this week and I am looking at what I should do before even picking it up exhaust (already talked about), Tune Boy etc? Looking for some input. The Chrome pieces etc I can do a bit at a time. But I am interested in what people did for their Rocket and if they are glad they did or wished they would have waited or went another way.

Freak
Get it. If for no other reason than you can open the secondaries 100% in all gears. You can also correct your speedometer to actual speed and raise the rev and speed limits. You can put whatever stock tune you want in and there are a variety of custom tunes for various exhaust configurations.You can always put a PCIII in over it.
 

talltxguy

Supercharged
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
246
Location
Texas
Pig9r,
I've heard mention of removing ignition restrictions. Could you elaborate on that please? Why would you want to remove the restrictions? What are the restrictions? What is the best way to remove the restrictions?
Thanks,
Tall Tx Guy
 

dougl

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
2,373
Location
Reno, NV
Ride
2007 R3 Classic
Also remove ignition restrictions.
I just noticed that 20050_2 has the ignition table I2 advanced (I think it's advanced because the number of degrees before TDC are higher) over the stock tune 20050. However this is only up to TP=15% and between 2200 and 3600 rpm. What's up with this? The 20050_3 (pod tune has smaller numbers in I2 (retarded) at higher TP's and rpms.

Please explain how advancing and retarding timing in different ranges of TP and RPM gives more power. Like when would you want to advance it and when to retard it to get more power?
 

Hondax

Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
1,288
Location
Body:West Central Missouri, Mind: Yes I are.
So what are everyone thoughts about the Tune Boy? The reason I am asking is my Rocket it supposed to come in this week and I am looking at what I should do before even picking it up exhaust (already talked about), Tune Boy etc? Looking for some input. The Chrome pieces etc I can do a bit at a time. But I am interested in what people did for their Rocket and if they are glad they did or wished they would have waited or went another way.

Freak
Try and wait on TuneBoy install until you experience your Rocket for a while. Many on this forum are plenty happy with the power the Rocket gives stock, not to mention the added kick with after market pipes and catback removed. With catback removed and D&D's put on, you should be @ zero to sixty MPH in around three seconds. Do you REALLY want more than that right away?!?! My two cents.:bch:
Yes Tuneboy has some nice features which is why I'm interested, but for now I will log a few more miles and think about it some more..:)
 
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Pig9r

Living Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
4,852
Location
Kansas City, MO USA
TxTallGuy--I don't know how basic or elaborate of a response you want so here you go. Basically the more advanced (degrees before TDC) fuel is ignited, the higher the pressure it is under and the more power the combustion can transfer to the piston. The reason to ignite prior to TDC is because of the time it takes for the ignition to occur, it is not instantaneous. By advancing the ignition the combustion is closer to the power stroke of the piston. However too far advanced and fuel can pre-ignite before the spark and work against the piston's power stroke. Lower octane fuel is more volatile and more likely to pre-ignite from heat and compression hence pinging or knocking. In this case the explosion is actually working against the power stroke of the engine. So there in lies the dilemma of advancing to the point of getting the most out of the combustion but preventing preignition of the fuel. Since the Rocket is lower compression and is timed to allow running on lower octane fuel there is some room to advance the timing and find the appropriate balance. So timing can be an important key to gaining the most out of the fuel you are putting into the bike.

The Rocket has four ignition maps. The labels wayne from tuneboy gave them is I 1, I 2, I 3, and I 4. I 1 is ignition timing for neutral, I 2 is for first gear, I 3 is second gear and I 4 is third through fifth gear. The timing is more advanced in I 4 than in I 2&3. By copying the ignition map from I 4 to I 2&3 the timing is more advanced thus translating to more power obtained from combustion. Triumph retarded the timing (detuned) first and second gears to smooth power delivery. With Toystoretom's bike he had the secondaries already removed and he had a PCIII installed which he has had good luck with and wanted to keep. So we loaded a stock Triumph tune with the ignition mods I mentioned earlier. He noticed a very appreciative gain in power and response. I hope they also explains why you would want to remove the restrictions.:D

DougL--I think wayne retarded the ignition in the #2 cylinder on the 20030_3 map for some reason or other. He added some fuel because it was leaner and he thought the decel popping was coming from there, and if it was too rough or jerky at small throttle opening because of the added fuel he may of retarded the ignition to smooth it out a little. To me that tune seemed smoother and power delivery seemed a little later but he had his best results on the dyno with it. Could be too because the bike was fitted with another product he sells.;)

Any of the mechanics out there (Tom) feel free to chime in with a professional opinion.
 

dougl

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
2,373
Location
Reno, NV
Ride
2007 R3 Classic
TxTallGuy--I don't know how basic or elaborate of a response you want so here you go. Basically the more advanced (degrees before TDC) fuel is ignited, the higher the pressure it is under and the more power the combustion can transfer to the piston. The reason to ignite prior to TDC is because of the time it takes for the ignition to occur, it is not instantaneous. By advancing the ignition the combustion is closer to the power stroke of the piston. However too far advanced and fuel can pre-ignite before the spark and work against the piston's power stroke. Lower octane fuel is more volatile and more likely to pre-ignite from heat and compression hence pinging or knocking. In this case the explosion is actually working against the power stroke of the engine. So there in lies the dilemma of advancing to the point of getting the most out of the combustion but preventing preignition of the fuel. Since the Rocket is lower compression and is timed to allow running on lower octane fuel there is some room to advance the timing and find the appropriate balance. So timing can be an important key to gaining the most out of the fuel you are putting into the bike.

The Rocket has four ignition maps. The labels wayne from tuneboy gave them is I 1, I 2, I 3, and I 4. I 1 is ignition timing for neutral, I 2 is for first gear, I 3 is second gear and I 4 is third through fifth gear. The timing is more advanced in I 4 than in I 2&3. By copying the ignition map from I 4 to I 2&3 the timing is more advanced thus translating to more power obtained from combustion. Triumph retarded the timing (detuned) first and second gears to smooth power delivery. With Toystoretom's bike he had the secondaries already removed and he had a PCIII installed which he has had good luck with and wanted to keep. So we loaded a stock Triumph tune with the ignition mods I mentioned earlier. He noticed a very appreciative gain in power and response. I hope they also explains why you would want to remove the restrictions.:D

DougL--I think wayne retarded the ignition in the #2 cylinder on the 20030_3 map for some reason or other. He added some fuel because it was leaner and he thought the decel popping was coming from there, and if it was too rough or jerky at small throttle opening because of the added fuel he may of retarded the ignition to smooth it out a little. To me that tune seemed smoother and power delivery seemed a little later but he had his best results on the dyno with it. Could be too because the bike was fitted with another product he sells.;)

Any of the mechanics out there (Tom) feel free to chime in with a professional opinion.
This idiot (yours truly) still doesn't know the difference between advanced or retarded. Is "advancing" making the number of degrees higher or lower?

P.S. I see that in 20050_2, I2, I3, and I4 are the same. Same with 20050_3, althought some of the numbers are different from 20050_2. I1 in both tunes is different from I2, I3, and I4.
 
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talltxguy

Supercharged
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
246
Location
Texas
Thanks Pig9r...

That gives me a better visual of things. LoL

Next question, have you changed the ignition maps? What octane are you running?

Later,
Tall Tx Guy
 

Pig9r

Living Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
4,852
Location
Kansas City, MO USA
Doug the values on the maps are degrees before TDC. The faster the engine revs the more it needs to be advanced to make up for the amount of time it takes for combustion to occur. Advancing would be higher-- degrees before TDC. Retarded is what the other kids used to call me.

TTG- I have changed the ignition maps but only to the extent of copying the I 4 map to the I 2 and I 3 maps. Tom has been determined to work on the timing to squeeze some more power, however I am not that proficient and know just enough to be dangerous. As far a gas grades I usually run premium. I don't think I really need to but it makes me feel better and it doesn't knock.:eek: And since I am not buying 25 gallons at a time, it doesn't hurt as bad. I have also run 10% ethanol mixes which is what Tom runs in his.
 
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