rocket oil pumps

[Claviger]

So, your logic seems sound Turbo.


Has anyone ever heard of an oiling problem during or just after a wheelie?

 

[TURBO200R4]

i guess if we r going to try to solve the oiling problems there is going to be a lot of possibility's. if we think that the tank has a drain back problem then u could take a clamp and clamp off the scavenging side for a few days to make sure if it is the scavenging side or pumping side. and if i did that i would put a large sign on the bike to keep my dumb ass from riding off with the clamp on
i am not going to do it but u could take the oil tank off the bike add longer hoses to it then start the bike and rotate the tank while watching the oil inside my best guess would be that u could turn it vertical and would still work.
i would think that after it was worked on that u should keep an eye on that tank to make sure it stays full and does not drain back. if it drains back u need to fix it!
if i was going to spend $5000 on a motor i would have an analog pressure gauge on it so i could monitor it and then u could see a change and maybe prevent a melt down.

 

[TURBO200R4]

i may have missed a thread but the only info i can remember is that a couple of carpenter motors went bad. cause being wheelies.
got to be a story about this if some one could post a link please.

 

[warp9.9]

Some of your ideas aren't bad except the steel tube coming from the scaveger side dumps out above the oil in the tank. I think if the Oring between the tank and the block was leaking you have oil running down the block right under the rear of the tank. Now the same goes for the front except the supply pipe runs across the bottom submerged in oil. The anti leak down valve is supposed to stop the oil from draining out of the tank. Now if it does not seal then oil could leak down into the sump. This is a one way pressure valve also so when the pump creates pressure it bloows it open so the tank supplies oil to the pump. Then there is the Oring on the tank drain plug. It seals off the supply crossover port in the sump pan. Its hard to see but in the yellow circle you can see a little hole in the corner of the port. It is sealed off by the Oring on the drain plug marked by the orange line in the picture. Sorry about the sh!tty drawing I wish I could grind my finger to a point for the dumb arse smart phone. You should look at the pictures of the oil tank pathway in the manual so you see the supply pipe and return pipe it is not exactly right but this could also be that the oil tank is different in the 04 to early 05 model and triumph has not updated the manual.

 

[TURBO200R4]

i think that we r on the same page just explaining different topics differently.
u also have a possibility of one of the sides of the scavenger pump not working there by failing to fill the tank on hard stopping or hard acceleration. i think that there is a lot of ways to lose pressure and u would have to deal with all of them if u were building the motor.
i guess if i were building a $5000 motor i would want to have it on a platform so i could put it on an angle up and be able to tilt it down, read actual oil pressure cold and hot. but thats just me.

 

[warp9.9]

u also have a possibility of one of the sides of the scavenger pump not working there by failing to fill the tank on hard stopping or hard acceleration. i think that there is a lot of ways to lose pressure and u would have to deal with all of them if u were building the motor..

The two scavenger ports red lines are seporated by the sump gasket yeller so that if one sump screen is not in the oil the other one will not be affected by the air and still draw oil to the return channel green. In theory I suspect

 

[TURBO200R4]

what i was implying for example was if some one left the bolts loose on the rear scavenging pump (or something similar)when a wheelie was done it would be incapable of returning oil to the tank therefor starving the main pump of oil.

 

[warp9.9]

what i was implying for example was if some one left the bolts loose on the rear scavenging pump (or something similar)when a wheelie was done it would be incapable of returning oil to the tank therefor starving the main pump of oil.

Ok the pressure pump is in the front right below the clutch which is driven by the sprocket and chain coming from the back of the clutch basket. It is the only pump besides water pump that can be pulled out without having to take the engine out of the bike it also drive the water pump via tang on the shaft and also drives the scavenger pump and feeds oil to the rear port on the tank on the othe end which you can't see until you pull the three pressure pump bolts. You cannot take the scavenger out without removing the engie and splitting it open.

Oh here i found a picture of the bottom case with the sump gasket on so you can see how it divided the scavenger pump ports much better then my stubby fonger drawing

 

[Speedy]

Does the scavenge pump have two separated rotors/gears or only one with two pick-ups? If one with two pick-ups, the pump will cavitate once one of the pick-ups is open to air. It will still pump some oil and air but since air is lighter and less viscous than oil, the second pick-up even if in oil becomes less effective.

And if the scavenge pump puts air/oil in the tank, the supply to the pressure pump contains more entrained air. Entrained air bubbles can be so small that you can't see them directly, all that is visible is a change in the oil's opaqueness, or they can be so large as to look like the stream coming from a kitchen faucet.

What type of valve is the anti-drain back valve; ball and tapered seat, flat disc and spring, barrel and spring? Some valve types are prone to leaking when debris is captured within the valve while other types are self-cleaning and rarely leak.

 

[warp9.9]

Does the scavenge pump have two separated rotors/gears or only one with two pick-ups? If one with two pick-ups, the pump will cavitate once one of the pick-ups is open to air. It will still pump some oil and air but since air is lighter and less viscous than oil, the second pick-up even if in oil becomes less effective.

And if the scavenge pump puts air/oil in the tank, the supply to the pressure pump contains more entrained air. Entrained air bubbles can be so small that you can't see them directly, all that is visible is a change in the oil's opaqueness, or they can be so large as to look like the stream coming from a kitchen faucet.

What type of valve is the anti-drain back valve; ball and tapered seat, flat disc and spring, barrel and spring? Some valve types are prone to leaking when debris is captured within the valve while other types are self-cleaning and rarely leak.

I correct my typos above. The pressure pump is the front one it has one rototor behind it in the case is the. Anyway to answer your questions scavenger pump is dual rotor each sealing to its own suction port. Tha valve is flat tapet with spring and internal snap ring. Easy to disassemble and clean.