There’s a bit of BS going on here, accentuated by the blinding torque in the video with which Rocketeers are familiar. It’s clear that the stock electronic throttle is heavily restricted. Derestricting it as Penner and Albans have done gives you 170+ max rwhp. The stock rev limit is set to 7000 rpm. Raising it to 7400 rpm doesn’t do much, as Penner found. In the BT Moto dyno chart, the hp is basically flat above 6700 rpm, as Penner found. The maximum torque goes up by only 3.3 ft lbs at about the same rpm. The separation between the stock and derestricted torque curves at WOT is due to the throttle derestriction at WOT. Note that these dyno results use the STD correction while the SAE correction is probably more conservative.
Did you see Richard Albans’ video?
David Gravlin
.060 Over
No but I talked with Chris at BT Moto and I was impressed
No doubt. Like with DNK, you don’t get to see what they actually do with the tunes. BT definitely has a good rep. I wouldn’t discourage you from going to a BT shop and paying them to load a tune. Make sure that Triumph never overwrites your ECU or you will have to go back to BT. I would not pay them $895 for their hand held tune loader.
David Gravlin
.060 Over
With the hand held you can put the factory tune back in for service until the warranty runs out
Claviger
Aspiring Student
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Messages
- 6,934
- Location
- Olympia Washington
- Ride
- '21 Z H2, '14 R3R, '02 Daytona 955i
So when adjusting the ETV tables, as in the video, if you don't custom tune after adjusting the table you are now relying on a fueling table that may or may not have been tuned for that tps at a given RPM that was never intended to be reachable.
For example, if triumph put 50% etv at 100% tps at 3000 rpm, and tuned the fuel table only that bin for 50%, when you change it to 100% etv it will look at the 100% cell on the fueling table at 100% tps/100%etv/3000rpm. If triumph tuned that area, you're fine, if they didn't, you're incredibly lean.
Simply, you can freely adjust etv to anything IF the fuel map was fully calibrated and the calibration included the new values you've entered. Based on triumph historical mapping, I would predict that it is not, in fact safe or calibrated fully for a given RPM/etv outside factory parameters of the etv table.
My H2 does this in a similar fashion, however, Kawasaki are in a different universe from triumph on engine tuning accuracy from factory. Even so, if I reshape my etv table, when data logging I can see points that need fueling adjustment because of dynamic changes. Like rolling slow, rolling on fast, snapping it open etc, it now passes through different fueling and etv values and the factory tuning doesn't compensate for that new revised dynamic state fully.
Last edited:
Claviger
Aspiring Student
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Messages
- 6,934
- Location
- Olympia Washington
- Ride
- '21 Z H2, '14 R3R, '02 Daytona 955i
The strategy I use is below, others follow different paradigms and that's great:
Rain mode - I gut it even further than stock to slow power build. If I'm in a situation so slick I need rain mode, I want to feel like I'm on a 250...
Road Mode - Smooth ETV table that builds progressively, like a excentric cam on an old school cable throttle where it's progressive, but from 70% TPS the ETV is fully derestricted. This gives best "normal" riding manners, but if I decide to go fast, full power is there.
Sport Mode - Sharp throttle. This mode I use to have a linear throttle so the throttle behaves like a 1:1 cable throttle. 50% on the bar is 50% at the blade. The only change from linear is that 90% or greater on the bar is 100% blade position to account for moments when I don't "quite" pull it to the stop. I find this best when hustling the bike through curves as it takes away the high rpm surge a progressive throttle can cause and makes mental work far less, small throttle movements provide small adjustments unlike a progressive.
Caution is advised using 1:1 on high power bikes....the factory tames them for a reason. You must have a very smooth right hand, especially at low opening situations.
Rain mode - I gut it even further than stock to slow power build. If I'm in a situation so slick I need rain mode, I want to feel like I'm on a 250...
Road Mode - Smooth ETV table that builds progressively, like a excentric cam on an old school cable throttle where it's progressive, but from 70% TPS the ETV is fully derestricted. This gives best "normal" riding manners, but if I decide to go fast, full power is there.
Sport Mode - Sharp throttle. This mode I use to have a linear throttle so the throttle behaves like a 1:1 cable throttle. 50% on the bar is 50% at the blade. The only change from linear is that 90% or greater on the bar is 100% blade position to account for moments when I don't "quite" pull it to the stop. I find this best when hustling the bike through curves as it takes away the high rpm surge a progressive throttle can cause and makes mental work far less, small throttle movements provide small adjustments unlike a progressive.
Caution is advised using 1:1 on high power bikes....the factory tames them for a reason. You must have a very smooth right hand, especially at low opening situations.
Last edited:
Unless Triumph puts a new base tune update in.
I’ve heard it explained that the fuel tables are keyed to the actual throttle plate opening as opposed to the grip throttle. This makes sense because there are 3 ride modes that differ significantly at the top end but only one fuel table (per cylinder). Further, the max etv opening in the stock sport mode is 65%. If you Jack this up to 100% as Penner did, you get 30 more peak hp. Penner said it didn’t need fuel at the top end based on the dyno.
Claviger
Aspiring Student
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Messages
- 6,934
- Location
- Olympia Washington
- Ride
- '21 Z H2, '14 R3R, '02 Daytona 955i
That's good, it confirms Triumph did actually tune the whole table.
The fuel table using the blade position and not grip is exactly correct.
ETV works differently across different manufacturers. Some it represents absolute blad position and some it's a percentage of grip position. I am not positive which strategy Triumph uses, but I expect it's the latter. This often confuses people initially usually but it's simple.
It's also why adjusting the fuel table is more complicated than expected and not intuitive on where to adjust the fuel table.
For example, when it's a percentage of grip position, say your ETV is 75% for 50% TPS. This would land at the 37.5% blade position value in the fuel table. I'm not positive this is Triumphs strategy, but I expect it is.
It's a huge shame that Woolich doesn't make a setup for the R3. The software does all the work for you of calculating where to adjust etc.
The fuel table using the blade position and not grip is exactly correct.
ETV works differently across different manufacturers. Some it represents absolute blad position and some it's a percentage of grip position. I am not positive which strategy Triumph uses, but I expect it's the latter. This often confuses people initially usually but it's simple.
It's also why adjusting the fuel table is more complicated than expected and not intuitive on where to adjust the fuel table.
For example, when it's a percentage of grip position, say your ETV is 75% for 50% TPS. This would land at the 37.5% blade position value in the fuel table. I'm not positive this is Triumphs strategy, but I expect it is.
It's a huge shame that Woolich doesn't make a setup for the R3. The software does all the work for you of calculating where to adjust etc.
Similar threads
