Lets talk L tables

[Neville Lush]

I am still learning , only done over 5000 bikes, with the dyno ( multiple). Used SOP, tracks and gauges before that.

 

[Claviger]

Haha “only 5000”. Like I said I don’t understand how he does it so quickly.

 

[barbagris]

For the preponderance of us with stock engine Rockets, with air & header systems,
what's to be gained in RWHP with the additional 1 day and 22 hours of tuning work???

Steve - for me it was (and is) NOT about RWHP. I would happily sacrifice some BHP for extended tank range through lower mpg - and to eliminate low throttle snatching.

I had as most used TPS values (because it's easier to understand without tools). What would we have done without @HansO?

I very soon moved to map/gear as I could feel anomalies in the matching of map to riding style. (I do not ride the same in all gears - I'll bet 90% of us don't). I modified Hanso's maps gear by gear. And I played with secondary butterflies to try and get less snatching low down. Worked to some extent.

But - As Rob says - the F/L switching was palpable and annoyingly right where I cruise. Forced the bike on to L for longer. (I did try forcing onto F - but the result was not as I wanted it esp at low throttle) On F for longer it was better but not perfect as the PCV was still TPS. Moving the PCV to MAP matching the Triumph values has made a HUGE difference. IMO ANYBODY with a PCV and A/T should make the switch. Rob's AFR map targets look rich - but so far I'd say overall I'm running marginally (c)leaner.

If you whack the throttle - It will however smell very rich and that worried me for a bit. But yes - it is ALL time. And so far (imo) worth every minute.

 

[Penner]

L-tables work better and finer than F-tables up to about 10% throttle.
To get an idea what to do with them, you can compare the numbers in F and L and adjust L-tables in the corresponding areas if you got AFR- data.
Anyway there is always a "transition area" of about 10% throttle opening around F-L switch, where the ECU uses input from both sensors and interpolates.
It really gets tricky if you use hotter cams, as pressure at the intake will raise.
In that case you will have to transfer 597-627 hPa numbers to the new area to get a start.

 

[Speedy]

Would like to see the L-tables you gents are developing. Are you working on a separate table per gear? Do you have a CES header on your motor?

No proof but I do believe that the ECU compensates for any disparity in fueling rate (injection time) at a given rpm between L-table and F-table during transition from one to the other. Thus getting the F-table map and L-table maps similar at low rpm and small TP helps keep the transition seamless.

No one so far as I know has been able to access the enrichment tables using TuneECU. At times the Triumph algorithms dump too much fuel. Some of the snatch between off and on may be unavoidable.

 

[Jvheli]

Would like to see the L-tables you gents are developing. Are you working on a separate table per gear? Do you have a CES header on your motor?

No proof but I do believe that the ECU compensates for any disparity in fueling rate (injection time) at a given rpm between L-table and F-table during transition from one to the other. Thus getting the F-table map and L-table maps similar at low rpm and small TP helps keep the transition seamless.

No one so far as I know has been able to access the enrichment tables using TuneECU. At times the Triumph algorithms dump too much fuel. Some of the snatch between off and on may be unavoidable.

I do have a CES system and Ramair. And I will share anything worth sharing! And I agree with @Neville Lush , getting a thorough tune in under three hours is really not possible. Just too much data to work with. However, you CAN get a usable ridable tune in that time, and thats what most are good with. Il happily pay for a great tune. Dont make any sense to me to shell out for the bike, the pipe nd whatever else, and then be a cheap ass with the tuner!

 

[rng3]

Just joined the party, but the way things are set up it appears to me that the L tables are primarily used in cruise low throttle conditions?
Also that the L tables use the fuel air ratio target tables so in effect work in closed loop with the ECU adjusting the ratio on the fly?
However the narrow band 02 has a very limited range at around 14.72 so is more like bouncing between rich/lean.
So I am wondering on the target map what 13.55 does instead of 12.5? Are out of range numbers ignored?
I assume the f tables ignore the target A?F ratios?
I just installed a Innovate LM-2 to data log what is going on.
With it hooked up to the Ecu I am logging A/F, RPM ,TPS and MAP.

Rick

 

[barbagris]

Would like to see the L-tables you gents are developing. Are you working on a separate table per gear? Do you have a CES header on your motor?.

In my case the word "develop" might be a strong word. I certainly will NOT be building "TuneECU" tables. I have a PCV with AT that advances via MAP and Gear.

I do use a different PCV table per gear as I am NOT 100% convinced that 100% secondaries at all revs in all gears is (for me) a practical solution. And so I "play" with these a bit. I am quite fierce with them in 1st.

I have a weird hybrid Jardine Header with a longer middle section before it Y splits inside the "silencer". The POD is logging TPS,MAP,RPM,AFR,GEAR which for now is about all my inbuilt grey matter processor can handle.

 

[BillB]

Ha, this made me smile. Almost LOL. Where the heck will I find a customer who will pay for the time? Everyone is keen to get free tunes. It takes me two days to properly tune a 1199 Panigale. The gains are enormous for just mouse clicking, no hard parts. But no-one complains about the cost AFTER they have ridden the bike.

M8, if you were within 700 miles from here I would drop mine off, hand you 1000 bux in a New York minute. The reason most of us Yanks are looking for already done tunes to try is because there's NOBODY on the east coast that is able to tune one.

 

[sonny]

It’s one of those things, like 4K TVs. Some will notice some won’t.

If a no-L table tune feels right and runs well then there’s no need for Ltable tuning.

If it bothers you then the Ltable can smooth it out a little bit.

I’m incredibly picky about engine fueling, can’t stand stock fueling on many vehicles even.

Down loaded tune mentioned Monday morning prior to heading for work. Today is Thursday and by days in we would have logged over 500 miles with the new tune. Bike runs great. Gas millage improved, heat from Viking exhaust lowered, and over all performance greatly improved. Change or mess with the tune Why? Claviger many thanks for posting this tune Works very well for me.