Lets talk L tables

Discussion in 'TuneECU Source' started by Jvheli, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Jvheli

    JvheliSupercharged

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    My base tune is CES -Ramair provided by @Claviger . Maybe from @1olbull dyno done by Nels?

    Anyway this base tune is very good.....however, the tune (regarding fueling) only uses f tables. Which works, but it can be better! L table tuning (tell me if im wrong!) Is a much finer, and better way to tune low rpm, low throttle positions. I believe the bike would run smoother, start smoother if the L tables were used.
    i would like to experiment. But the only data I have is stock. Any idea what changes would be a good, and safe starting point? Im willing to experiment and Il have it checked on the dyno when im satisfied its running well.
     
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  2. warp9.9

    warp9.9Pocałuj mnie w dupę

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    I think @1olbull has a different tune now. I remember pointing out that his L tables were turned off. He will be along shortly now that he has been summoned:D
     
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  3. barbagris

    barbagrisMad Scientist

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    I have been favouring the L tables for a while - with a PCV&A/T.

    But also now use the PCV with A/T in MAP pressure mode as @Claviger was kind enough to show us how easy it is. I still do not have much more than 2/3 of a tankful of kms done - but the bike IS noticeably more smooth running. Will push through another 90miles-ish tomorrow. Will do some logging with the POD300 so we have real data.
     
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  4. 1olbull

    1olbullRiding Motor Since 1951

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    My last two dynos were with CES - one was with K&N 2780s & the recent with Ram Air.
    A slight difference & improvement was had with the Ram Air.
    I do not know for sure about the "L" tables as I be too igorant!
    I have sent a text to Nels . . .
     
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  5. Claviger

    ClavigerHP Junkie extraordinaire

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    Your tune has no L-Table input @1olbull all zeros.

    The L-Tables... where do I start. They CAN result in a smoother running bike. They’re also much more time consuming to tune. Not a simple doubling of time, more like 4-5 times as long.

    In my opinion To do them right you need to:

    -Fully tune the F-Tables with the F/L switch set to all 0s. This gets the gross fueling where it should be.

    -Enable the L-Tables in the F/L switch table at a percentage to don’t often ride at. I have mine set at 9% up to 1930 RPM then 0s. I rarely sit at 9% for any meaningful amount of time, it’s usually a transient position on my way to 20% or more. Avoid setting them to a position to you are often at as the F/L transition can be felt in the buttocks.

    -Tune the L-Table using a load cell dyno, to do it perfect you must have a dyno. To get it close you can use a PC-V + AT. You need to be able to see instant vacuum level the ECU is seeing and datalog vacuum, throttle position, rpm, and AFR, at a minimum. The challenge is that a given throttle position does not correspond to a given vacuum amount across the whole RPM band, so you need to learn the relationship of vacuum to rpm to throttle position so you can avoid transient events by moving the throttle during the sweep up the rpm. Moving the throttle will trigger acceleration enrichment and screw up the AFR datalog.

    There are probably very few guys in the world that own a dyno and know how to do it right on a Rocket 3. Of those few I bet there are less than 5 that are willing to spend the time doing it.
     
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  6. 1olbull

    1olbullRiding Motor Since 1951

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    @Claviger Rob,
    Sounds like the reason Nels' tuning does not take 3 or more hours.
    My R3R has always ran strong and smooth (with the TPS $hit the bed exception) and now the loose coil wires - I hope.
    Why would we need to fuss with the "L" tables?
     
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  7. Claviger

    ClavigerHP Junkie extraordinaire

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    It’s one of those things, like 4K TVs. Some will notice some won’t.

    If a no-L table tune feels right and runs well then there’s no need for Ltable tuning.

    If it bothers you then the Ltable can smooth it out a little bit.

    I’m incredibly picky about engine fueling, can’t stand stock fueling on many vehicles even.
     
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  8. Neville Lush

    Neville Lushwww.nevillelushracing.com

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    Ha, this made me smile. Almost LOL. Where the heck will I find a customer who will pay for the time? Everyone is keen to get free tunes. It takes me two days to properly tune a 1199 Panigale. The gains are enormous for just mouse clicking, no hard parts. But no-one complains about the cost AFTER they have ridden the bike.
     
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  9. Claviger

    ClavigerHP Junkie extraordinaire

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    The short list of those I know of who can/have done it: You, Wayne, Power Tripp.... that’s it.

    I just want to pay and rent a dyno so I can do the **** work myself lol.
     
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  10. 1olbull

    1olbullRiding Motor Since 1951

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    We gotta get you a dynamometer!
     
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