Fuel Level Indicator Not Working - Clutch Switch/Solved!

Journeyman28778

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Here's some late night reading material that came up after some Googling results- after all, this is probably a Triumph thing, not just the Rocket3...





"The clutch switch is one of those switches from Triumph that is used to do a whole lot more than just tell the computers that the clutch is either engaged or not. There's about 14 different things on the bike that use info from the clutch switch from fueling to gear position."
----

There are two part #s
$161.14 (includes the harness - I think) 2011 Triumph Rocket III Switch Set, LH. Controls, Clutch, Switches, Suspension - T2046759 | HERMYS TRIUMPH eSTORE, Port Clinton PA
$110.72 (requires splicing- I think) 2011 Triumph Rocket III Switch Set, LH. Suspension, Controls, Clutch - T2046018 | HERMYS TRIUMPH eSTORE, Port Clinton PA

I remember when mine was apart a small "shaft" that seemed worn down. I'm wondering if I can replace that with something else to get the existing switch going again. Thinking maybe as it is now the ECU sees that the clutch lever is in and starts, but does not see that it is out, or something like that- I'm totally making this stuff up :whitstling:


I just ordered one from Pinwall for $55. We'll know soon enough if that is the fix.
 
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tribal

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I was looking around as well.

1. One non-Rocket Triumph rider had the fuel lever float arm 'jump' over the guides it is in that sends electrical signals to the ECU and fuel gauge.
It occurred when he almost lost control and the fuel sloshed around.

He was able to manipulate it back on that particular model from underneath using a long screwdriver.


I couldn't tell from the repair manual if a similar thing is possible on the Rockets and do not have access to my Roadster to see if you can look through the gas opening to see if something similar could happen.

Bad vs Good float position on that bike.
bad.jpggood.jpg


2. I see conflicting Part numbers and Qty for the 3 #10 Relays in the OEM electrical diagrams. T2506040 Open (Discontinued/Unavailable??) and T2502109 EFI.

Starter, Fuel Pump and Engine Management System Relays. They appear interchangeable and are listed for many Roadster years in the parts fiche.

Q. Which ones do people with issues have and does swapping them around fix or change the symptoms?


T2502019-newer relay.jpg


3. Fuel pump Relay gets power from a 10A Fuse #5 if I'm reading the schematic correctly. I would replace it and see if it helps.
EMS Relay gets power from fuse #6 20A. I would replace it and see if it helps.


4. I saw Another reference to the clutch switch not sending the correct signal to the ECU on another Triumph model. That apparently is used by the ECU for calculating mileage and miles-to-empty , not sure what else on ours...
 

tribal

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I found a picture of the fuel level sender unit for Roadsters Part Number T1241089 Engine number 334808 and above.

It does appear that there is a small retaining tab.

I don't know how it is orientated on the fuel pump assembly but maybe it sticks or can jump that tab if jostled enough? I wheelie don't know...

No used ones readily available but Ish may know where to get a cheaper one.

Screenshot 2021-02-18 231647.jpg
s-l500.jpg
 

Journeyman28778

"And this one is just right" ~ Goldilocks
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'11 Rocket III Roadster
I was looking around as well.

1. One non-Rocket Triumph rider had the fuel lever float arm 'jump' over the guides it is in that sends electrical signals to the ECU and fuel gauge.
It occurred when he almost lost control and the fuel sloshed around.

He was able to manipulate it back on that particular model from underneath using a long screwdriver.


I couldn't tell from the repair manual if a similar thing is possible on the Rockets and do not have access to my Roadster to see if you can look through the gas opening to see if something similar could happen.

Bad vs Good float position on that bike.
bad.jpggood.jpg


2. I see conflicting Part numbers and Qty for the 3 #10 Relays in the OEM electrical diagrams. T2506040 Open (Discontinued/Unavailable??) and T2502109 EFI.

Starter, Fuel Pump and Engine Management System Relays. They appear interchangeable and are listed for many Roadster years in the parts fiche.

Q. Which ones do people with issues have and does swapping them around fix or change the symptoms?


T2502019-newer relay.jpg


3. Fuel pump Relay gets power from a 10A Fuse #5 if I'm reading the schematic correctly. I would replace it and see if it helps.
EMS Relay gets power from fuse #6 20A. I would replace it and see if it helps.


4. I saw Another reference to the clutch switch not sending the correct signal to the ECU on another Triumph model. That apparently is used by the ECU for calculating mileage and miles-to-empty , not sure what else on ours...
Tribal- I just changed my fuel filter (after this problem began) and observed the float. It seemed to be working well, although not sure about the tab that you mentioned. If I raise the tank it changes the voltage in TuneECU gradually and then resets, so I think the float assembly is working OK. It then works its way down with fuel usage, but never comes back up when refueling.

Do you know where those relays are located? That would be easy enough to check. I may try replacing fuses, but curious, if they have continuity what your thinking is there.

Of course there are probably multiple areas that could be at fault, but from what I dug up it seems that replacing the clutch switch has fixed the issue for many riders. Also, there seems to be a high correlation of people like me and Sonny who get the problem right after a clutch switch issue. In my case, when it first started acting up I had to sometimes work the clutch lever before the bike would start. Then when no amount of fiddling would get it to start, I finally tore into the switch and cleaned it up. The bike started without further problems, but the fuel gauge went out. Seems it needs to make contact to start, but needs to be open (when the lever is out) for the fuel gauge to read. I think when we "repair" the switch we're doing something that leaves that switch in constant contact.

I should have the one from Pinwall in a couple of days and will report back. I'll also open up the old switch and shoot a couple of photos.
 
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tribal

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Just some ideas.
On the earlier models we would bend the float arm so that it was just at the empty level but it seems to eventually give up the ghost and most people just give up and reset the trip meter and figure out miles-per-tank and refill accordingly.

The Relays should be the same positions for 2004-2018's. Touring is different on the right side relay location AFAIK but I think my manual is wrong as it is missing the starter relay. My Roadster supplement doesn't show a fuse box diagram - someone else may have the full service manual for one to check that.


relays-leftside.jpg


Screenshot 2021-02-19 044756.jpg


The Touring does not use Fuse #8.
 

Journeyman28778

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More.....

Photos of the switch opened up here (Similar)

switch2.jpg

switch1.jpg


The "super moderator" on the Triumph675 website
said the following......
"This was passed down to my by my Triumph instructor who told me that this came straight from Keihin and that it applies to the new Suzukis as well since they run the same ECU setup.
Obviously item 2 and 3 do not apply to our bikes but most of these do.
[It obviously does apply to our bikes]
The only way around this is to run the race kit ecu and harness.
Quote:
The Clutch switch is important in the following 13 ways:

1 Decel rate control using the idle speed stepper: Additional steps are used to
soften the decels – when the clutch is pulled in these steps must be dumped
or the bike will hangup or push-on.
[the stepper motor rears its ugly head again- interesting]
2 Fuel gauge – will not update whilst the clutch is in – this is to stop updating
of the sensor when the fuel could be sloshing (i.e. during gear changes).
[supports my theory that when some of us "fix" the switch we're leaving it in constant contact]
3 Vehicle speed limiter – This will not work with the clutch switch bypassed.
4 Gear position judgment – The NCT range with no gear position sensor
derives an idea of gear postion from RPM vs Vehicle Speed. This function will
not work so the wrong ignition maps are applied.
5 Gear position judgement other models – The clutch switch will force a
‘NO LOAD’ condition and use the neutral ignition maps. This overrides the
gear position info and the wrong ignition, second throttle and exhaust
butterfly maps will be used!

6 Ignition smoothing strategy is disabled.
7 Pressure based fuel merging to Throttle based fuel is not merged – its
switched which can cause a jump in fueling.
8 Deceleration fuel reduction multiplier is not applied – causing rich overuns
– potentially damaging to the CAT.
9 Deceleration fuel cut-off & CAT protection fuel cut is not applied – this will
definitely impact on CAT performance.
10 On some models closed loop will not work when riding.
11 D675 airflap will always be closed
12 D675 exhaust valve will remain partly closed.
13 Starter lock out switch – ie SAFETY
 
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TURBO200R4

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i remember some one had shorted that clutch switch and was saying it ran bad.
don't necessary believe every thing i read but i try to keep it in the back of the old brain just incase i need it.
would b easy enough to check switch just turn it all on except for the pull in lever and see if it will start. and if it does then u know it is shorted.
 

Journeyman28778

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Even in neutral with the kickstand down you should have to pull the lever in for it to crank, right? I'm not sure anymore, cause I always do it that way out of habit.

If so, not mine ever since I "fixed" the switch- starts without pulling in the lever. It must always be making contact and the bike thinks the lever is in.

I was having erratic problems with the bike recently. I finally decided it was the primary TPS and fuel filter, but now wondering if when the clutch switch was on it's way out that might have been contributing to the problem.

Who knew so much of the bike's critical operations were dependent on that little switch!

@sonny I'll bet yours will start that way too. Let us know....
 
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