Cam tensioner blues

[dbutton12]

I know this topic has been beat to death, but I gotta get this off my chest. WTF is up with the timing chain wear? At 25k miles I started to hear the intermittent "click-click" and I checked the tensioner depth which was at 17.2mm. I installed the spacer and tried it for another 500 miles and click was still there, however it would seldom do it and only at 1850-2000 rpm. What I am wondering is (from those of you that have been into the timing chain and guides) what is actually wearing?? Is it the guides or the chain that wears? I find it hard to believe with so few miles on it that this requires this amount of adjustment. Twin overhead chain driven cams have been around for years in the automotive realm and they are basically identical to the R3 setup,,,,however they LAST. The beater I drive everyday is a GM Ecotech with 244000 miles on it and has never been opened up for any reason. The only significant differences are the majority of automotive applications use a hydraulic tensioner and they use roller chain instead of the rocker link setup. I know the rocker link chains are more subject to wear, but really,,, at 25k miles??? With this happening on a stock engine, I can't imagine what you guys running superchargers have to put up with for mainenance??? Are there roller chain and sprocket kits available?

 

[1olbull]

Sorry for your issues!
Sorry to say that I am of no help here, but shall await comments from the gurus.

 

[Ishrub]

I hope it is simple fix! Could be the spring has lost tension I just ordered a replacement spare to carry as a 'Justincase' after having it in my ebay cart for ages.

Cam Chain Tensioner Spring Kit - Triumph Rocket III Roadster | eBay

Replacement Cam Chain Tensioner Spring Kit for Triumph Rocket III Roadster.

(Stock Ref Z585)

Replacement Cam Chain Tensioner Spring complete with copper sealing washer.

It is recommended that the spring is replaced if its length has reduced significantly below73.7mm. This is a much more cost effective option than replacing the complete tensioner assembly.

Replacement of the spring requires only the 19mm hexagon headed bolt to be removed and the spring can then be replaced. A very simple job.

Fits: 750/900Trident, 750/900/955/1050 Speed Triple, 750/900/1000/1200/955 Daytona, 900/1200 Trophy, 900/955/1050 Tiger, Thunderbird 900, Thunderbird Sport, Legend TT, Adventurer, Rocket III, Rocket III Classic, Rocket III Roadster, Rocket III Touring, Sprint 900, Sprint Sport, Sprint Executive, Sprint ST 955/1050, Sprint RS

 

[warp9.9]

I know this topic has been beat to death, but I gotta get this off my chest. WTF is up with the timing chain wear? At 25k miles I started to hear the intermittent "click-click" and I checked the tensioner depth which was at 17.2mm. I installed the spacer and tried it for another 500 miles and click was still there, however it would seldom do it and only at 1850-2000 rpm. What I am wondering is (from those of you that have been into the timing chain and guides) what is actually wearing?? Is it the guides or the chain that wears? I find it hard to believe with so few miles on it that this requires this amount of adjustment. Twin overhead chain driven cams have been around for years in the automotive realm and they are basically identical to the R3 setup,,,,however they LAST. The beater I drive everyday is a GM Ecotech with 244000 miles on it and has never been opened up for any reason. The only significant differences are the majority of automotive applications use a hydraulic tensioner and they use roller chain instead of the rocker link setup. I know the rocker link chains are more subject to wear, but really,,, at 25k miles??? With this happening on a stock engine, I can't imagine what you guys running superchargers have to put up with for mainenance??? Are there roller chain and sprocket kits available?

The guide wears but not much mostly during bed in. the chain INMHO the reason you see so many different plunger drop lengths is do to the tolerances of all parts affected in the chain system. Tolerances on chain length, gear sprocket dimensions time 3 center line locations between cams and cam to crank center line, tensioner and guide manufacturing tolerances all add up to different plunger drops. after so much Triumph added a spacer in the plunger to bring the spring tension back up a wee bit. My question to you would be did you measure the drop to see what if anything changed. (I would be surprise to see it change by a mm or is this case a tooth or so now that the tension on the spring has been increased.

It should also be noted that some of the differences in drop on the plunger could also be that there are many bikes out there that have not been updated which means there is at least 3 if not 4 different cam chain guides on the tensioner side of the engine.

As for your supercharger question as far as I know and I only have a wee bit over 40,000 miles on my supercharger with a modified for safety auto tensioner I have never noticed any difference in the wear. This is probably do to most of the kit owners still use the stock valve springs. I would worry about it more with stiffer springs but have not noticed anu real wear on the 10,000 miles I put on my other bike with a manual tensioner.

Personally I prefer the modified auto tensioner to manual so you do not have to worry about screwing up the manual adjustment.

 

[Ishrub]

So did I waste my cash on the spare spring as this is rarely a problem or is it a worthwhile 'justincase' carry in the toolkit/spares? I have no issue I am aware of but I bought my '10 R3R with 60,000km on the clock and no service records.

 

[Neville Lush]

I do a proper manual tensioner, http://nevillelushracing.com/images/parts_pics/tensioner.jpg

 

[albertaduke]

I do a proper manual tensioner, http://nevillelushracing.com/images/parts_pics/tensioner.jpg

BTW
do you have a user"friendly brochure to make sure we apply the proper technique for tensionning this tensioner ??

 

[Neville Lush]

Not currently, this I can/will do. Briefly it is important not to overtighten ,as the chain gets tighter when the engine warms up. I will work on something to describe a good technique. I guess in the past I have wrongly assumed that if some-one is buying the item they will have knowledge of engine assembly. APE or the like field no instructions either. Thinking on it now, I may well adjust a chain then measure the tension in inch/lbs and provide a value.Do you think this would be acceptable? This tensioner is specifically built for the rocket.

 

[DodahMan]

I know this topic has been beat to death, but I gotta get this off my chest. WTF is up with the timing chain wear? At 25k miles I started to hear the intermittent "click-click" and I checked the tensioner depth which was at 17.2mm. I installed the spacer and tried it for another 500 miles and click was still there, however it would seldom do it and only at 1850-2000 rpm. What I am wondering is (from those of you that have been into the timing chain and guides) what is actually wearing?? Is it the guides or the chain that wears? I find it hard to believe with so few miles on it that this requires this amount of adjustment. Twin overhead chain driven cams have been around for years in the automotive realm and they are basically identical to the R3 setup,,,,however they LAST. The beater I drive everyday is a GM Ecotech with 244000 miles on it and has never been opened up for any reason. The only significant differences are the majority of automotive applications use a hydraulic tensioner and they use roller chain instead of the rocker link setup. I know the rocker link chains are more subject to wear, but really,,, at 25k miles??? With this happening on a stock engine, I can't imagine what you guys running superchargers have to put up with for mainenance??? Are there roller chain and sprocket kits available?

I am not an expert in this but am currently studying this subject on the Rocket because two guys I know who ride Harleys have had to replace their engines because of cam chain tensioners. The were made OF PLASTIC and as wear occurred, gradually caused oil circulation problems starving the engine of oil. Major problems due to PLASTIC tensioners in the engine! These were very expensive repairs. My roadstar may make more engine noise but with gear driven cams, no worries there. Did Triumph use plastic tensioners in the Rocket's motors?

 

[Ishrub]

The tensioner is different and separate from the chain guides (blades) that are nylon or similar hard plastic (and maybe with alloy inserts) and do wear IF the cam chain is loose or it starts flapping around at very high revs in performance builds.

The stock Tensioner is all metal except for the tip in contact with the chain I believe. The stock one has an oil retaining cylinder and the spring loaded pusher that slides inside it. They are generic to a whole range of early and later Triumph models including Daytonas, Trophies etc.

The aftermarketr ones are mechanical thread and hand adjusted from APE and Neville Lush makes an even better custom one for a great price.

Camshaft & Camshaft Drive - Triumph ROCKET III, CLASSIC & ROADSTER | Triumph ROCKET III, CLASSIC & ROADSTER Camshaft & Camshaft Drive supplied next day (UK only) by Fowlers Parts

8 Kit, Cam Blades T1142049

8 Blade, Rubbing Strip, Camchain T1142055
9 Kit, Cam Blades T1142049
9 Blade, Tensioner, Camchain, Alu T1142048
12 Tensioner Assy, Black T1140183
12 Tensioner Assy, Silver T1140180
13 Gasket, Tensioner T1140187
14 Bolt, HHF, Lghtd, M6 x 20, Slv T3205066
14 Bolt, HHF, Lghtd, M6 x 20, Slv T3205066
Replaces T3203020