albertaduke
former airline pilot without the big bucks
matter of fact when the whole garage went up in smoke the battery was already in my basement hooked up to a tender and now it seats in the new ride.. surprised!!
matter of fact when the whole garage went up in smoke the battery was already in my basement hooked up to a tender and now it seats in the new ride.. surprised!!
1olbull
Riding Motor Since 1950
matter of fact when the whole garage went up in smoke the battery was already in my basement hooked up to a tender and now it seats in the new ride.. surprised!!
Indeed!
I thought I had you on this one!
barbagris
Mad Scientist
- Joined
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- 1979 Guzzi V1000G5 - 2018 KTM 790 Duke
OK - I am now on my 3rd. Though the last swap was 100% a knee jerk as I was travelling away from home and was not going to take chances.
R3's can be reluctant to start for a variety of reasons.
imo The battery size fitted is very borderline. Period. It is fine for 90% of cases - But those other 10% are the folk who have issues. Extremes.
imo - whilst bigger (and therefore lower resistance) cables are ALWAYS better - the stock cables are NOT restrictive. Unless you have wild compression. Cold improves electrical flow!.
We run dry sumps so should not really be dragging much "muddy" oil around. Unless it has stood for a bit. And the oil has all dropped into the sump.
ime Most LiFePO4 batteries made to fit "Harley size" holes are all a bit under powered. Most are about 6aH which gives the required CCA (on paper) but in the cold you HAVE TO let them warm up (put the lights on for 5-10s) - The issue then is that the surface voltage can drop a bit and if you're on the limit - you're stuffed. I have just seen a 7aH version - but for my next one I am going to have a 10aH made to measure by I-Tecc24 in Germany - and using maximum efficiency A123 cells. NOT ALL LiFePO4 cells are the same. A123 did make some 8aH cells - and I have a battery made from them on my Guzzi - That never fails to fire - you can weld with it.
I will not use this on the R3 as it is not BMS or Voltage controlled - It worries me that electronics might suffer - The Guzzi has NO electronics.
A123 cells have MONSTER discharge ratings - a good 2-3 times as high as most others.
Lead acid are OK but will suffer if you let them get very cold and then BURST them into life. Part of the acid will heat & boil fast - and the water evaporate near the plates. This leads to advanced sulphating AND they dry out. I FECKING HATE sealed batteries. Here in central Spain - 80% of batteries going soft is because they are simply DRY.
But there is an issue that most of us, I feel, are not taking into account. Throttle Body and ambient air temp. My bikes sleep inside. If I start cold with the bike inside still then it will usually fire straight up. If I wheel it outside and close the door behind me - and let it draw cold (say 0°C) air then spin as it might it takes a while to fire. Usually 2 or 3 button pushes. Ride and stop for fuel - no problems - ride leave it sat for 4 hours in the cold - expect reluctance again. My experience is that the more exposed the air at the inlet is the faster you'll see this.
I don't remember the numbers but I recall from ages ago that there is a table for optimum vaporisation airtemp, airflow etc. As soon as you get a spark on anything combustible - the R3 will run. Low compression. But if the fuel is not vaporising or even condenses on cold metal - then it ain't combustible.
In cold climates - I think I would stay with older technology & simply carry a small LiFePO4 booster pack inside my Jacket. A123 cells and a 2.5aH size.
I have a mate in the alps who uses some sort of cold start spray too. He swears by it.
Warm Climates - Lithium - just to stop the drying out effect. Which is a serious bloody issue for me.
OH - And I now carry one of these - EVERYWHERE - NOCO - 1000A Lithium Jump Starter - GB40
R3's can be reluctant to start for a variety of reasons.
imo The battery size fitted is very borderline. Period. It is fine for 90% of cases - But those other 10% are the folk who have issues. Extremes.
imo - whilst bigger (and therefore lower resistance) cables are ALWAYS better - the stock cables are NOT restrictive. Unless you have wild compression. Cold improves electrical flow!.
We run dry sumps so should not really be dragging much "muddy" oil around. Unless it has stood for a bit. And the oil has all dropped into the sump.
ime Most LiFePO4 batteries made to fit "Harley size" holes are all a bit under powered. Most are about 6aH which gives the required CCA (on paper) but in the cold you HAVE TO let them warm up (put the lights on for 5-10s) - The issue then is that the surface voltage can drop a bit and if you're on the limit - you're stuffed. I have just seen a 7aH version - but for my next one I am going to have a 10aH made to measure by I-Tecc24 in Germany - and using maximum efficiency A123 cells. NOT ALL LiFePO4 cells are the same. A123 did make some 8aH cells - and I have a battery made from them on my Guzzi - That never fails to fire - you can weld with it.
I will not use this on the R3 as it is not BMS or Voltage controlled - It worries me that electronics might suffer - The Guzzi has NO electronics.
A123 cells have MONSTER discharge ratings - a good 2-3 times as high as most others.
Lead acid are OK but will suffer if you let them get very cold and then BURST them into life. Part of the acid will heat & boil fast - and the water evaporate near the plates. This leads to advanced sulphating AND they dry out. I FECKING HATE sealed batteries. Here in central Spain - 80% of batteries going soft is because they are simply DRY.
But there is an issue that most of us, I feel, are not taking into account. Throttle Body and ambient air temp. My bikes sleep inside. If I start cold with the bike inside still then it will usually fire straight up. If I wheel it outside and close the door behind me - and let it draw cold (say 0°C) air then spin as it might it takes a while to fire. Usually 2 or 3 button pushes. Ride and stop for fuel - no problems - ride leave it sat for 4 hours in the cold - expect reluctance again. My experience is that the more exposed the air at the inlet is the faster you'll see this.
I don't remember the numbers but I recall from ages ago that there is a table for optimum vaporisation airtemp, airflow etc. As soon as you get a spark on anything combustible - the R3 will run. Low compression. But if the fuel is not vaporising or even condenses on cold metal - then it ain't combustible.
In cold climates - I think I would stay with older technology & simply carry a small LiFePO4 booster pack inside my Jacket. A123 cells and a 2.5aH size.
I have a mate in the alps who uses some sort of cold start spray too. He swears by it.
Warm Climates - Lithium - just to stop the drying out effect. Which is a serious bloody issue for me.
OH - And I now carry one of these - EVERYWHERE - NOCO - 1000A Lithium Jump Starter - GB40
Last edited:
Paul Bryant
Living Legend
O.K. Batteries aside, some time ago there was mention of a Suzuki "rectifier" that was more appropriate to the Rocket than the Stock one.
Can anyone give me a direction to this ?
Can anyone give me a direction to this ?
barbagris
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2010
- Messages
- 12,988
- Location
- On the verge of insanity
- Ride
- 1979 Guzzi V1000G5 - 2018 KTM 790 Duke
patrol21
.060 Over
- Joined
- May 15, 2013
- Messages
- 119
- Location
- Rochester NY
- Ride
- 2009 R3 RAMAIR Intake Full Jardine Exhaust Cor
Mis spoke .it's a tender not a trickle
rocketjohn
Top Fuel
It's a Suzuki one...I think from the Bandit, and it has the same plugs as the Triumph model...but that won't affect charging unless you are so festooned with accessories that the original rectifier is already wheezing. The Suzuki one is serial type and while it will work just as hard it doesn't pull power out of the stator that it's not going to use. The Triumph R/R is a shunting type and it does do this and the unwanted power is dumped into the oil...to cool the stator off....and heat up the oil. Better to just not make any more electricity than you can use.
Bernard Vinet
Frenchbernie
The stock battery lasted 5 yrs on my RT3. It had 5000K when I bought it which means the battery had not worked very hard. He had been using Optimate seems to have done the job, Its what I use but I plug it in once a month . Do not let it tende the battery. Battery loses a bit of charge per month and then charge it full which means it working up and down without getting battery memory. I believe
warp9.9
Pocałuj mnie w dupę
He took the battery out before he lit the bike on fire in the garage. SAFETY FIRST
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scot in exile
Living Legend
Never had a problem with the batteries that wallyworld sells but then again I replace my battery no later then every four years usually sooner , I do not wait for the battery to give out.
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