TORS -vs- Jardines

[hombre]

What you call a "heat block" was created 3 years ago... I called it an "air dam". Very simple mod but important to move the IAT into #1 air filter. Also has short V-stacks inside Unifilters.



This breathes even better than 3 filters with air dam (has proper length V-stacks):

 

[jlm205]

The lack of flow really starts to show up around 5000 rpm. In the above example, it was a very delicate balancing act to get the engine to pull well to 6500 rpm consistently, and not drop off after 6000 rpm. Ignition advance was critical, and will be even more so as ambient temps and humidity increase through the Summer and the cylinders fill a bit less due to reduced air density. This will actually make the RU-2780s under the bearclaw look better using corrected numbers on the dyno - one of the pitfalls of dyno numbers as ambient conditions change.

Based on what I have seen with larger filters and a cut or custom bearclaw on a similar R3, there is another 2-3% possible with the Jardine full system. More if the intake air temps are lower.

Every 5.4° F (3° C) that intake air temps drop, gives a 1% increase in output.
This means that pulling 20° F cooler air into the intake (not from behind the radiator or across the hot engine) can be a substantial gain. This means that someone needs to produce a well designed heat block for the R3s using triple filters, IMHO.

Using an exhaust that is more efficiently length (pulse) tuned than the Jardines (such as the Predators, etc.) will show an even greater improvement. The R3 really wants longer primary lengths on the header than the Jardines provide. Inline engines (especially 3 and 6-cylinder engines) are not particularly sensitive to collector length compared to primary lengths, but getting the primary and collector lengths correct will give gains at all engine speeds and loads. This means that the intake flow needs to match.

Clear as mud now, right?

actually it is very clear wayne. no mud here.
so if one were to:
------ develop a smaller dual-core radiator to allow cool air past it. (unlike huge wide stock one)
------design/produce a better set of pipes than jardines w/ emphasis on primary lengths.
AND
-------------increase "cooler" airflow w/ much bigger/longer filters that potrude way "out" (ie.__x-stream k/n's w/ inflow filter on top) in cool air. (not under any cover like bearclaw.)

_______________you could expect a nice increase in HP #'s ????

Thanks!

 

[Sidecar Flip]

K&N filters......

If you guys want the RX 4040-1's I'll stock them. They are available from K&N. If you are interested, shoot me an e-mail at sales@flipmeisters.com for a price. They aren't on the website but if there is a demand for them, I'll add them in.

 

[Power-Tripp]

Hombre - I've seen your mods in the past, and applaud the great work. I meant that someone should market a kit for the masses. Few R3 owners like (or can easily fabricate) parts like this.

JLM - There is an easy 4+% to be had over the Jardine/RU-2780 set up with a good header and larger filters without the BearClaw. There is likely another 2-3% possible by simply forming a dam like Hombre's and adding a duct or dam that picks up air in front of the radiator.

I have a prototype in the works, but still need to fabricate a replacement for the BearClaw cover for those who like a more finished look (likely in carbon like the other parts), and then to test it on an R3.

 

[goodfellow]

wayne,


will your intake set-up be ready by late oct-early november?


greg

 

[jlm205]

Hombre - I've seen your mods in the past, and applaud the great work. I meant that someone should market a kit for the masses. Few R3 owners like (or can easily fabricate) parts like this.

JLM - There is an easy 4+% to be had over the Jardine/RU-2780 set up with a good header and larger filters without the BearClaw. There is likely another 2-3% possible by simply forming a dam like Hombre's and adding a duct or dam that picks up air in front of the radiator.

I have a prototype in the works, but still need to fabricate a replacement for the BearClaw cover for those who like a more finished look (likely in carbon like the other parts), and then to test it on an R3.

wayne--w/ the small rad like travelguy is r&d'ing now, you won't have the air blockage as w/ stock! hombre's ram-air was a nice unit.

4% plus 2-3% of what number??

i've seen your brother's tunnel hull boat work. nice!! did your apple fall pretty close to his on glass work? a modified bolt-on bearclaw replacement would be a great item to market to all. good luck!!

 

[Power-Tripp]

wayne,
will your intake set-up be ready by late oct-early november?
greg

Much sooner than that I hope.


JLM - I was speaking in relation to the graph in the first post. I use percentages so you can compare on any dyno.

'Glass work - YEP. We have both worked with laminates for much of our lives, and I share a shop with RPM Powerboats (my brothers company). Once I get the intake dam finalized, I will pull a mold of the parts and make it strong enough for infusion (like used in all RPM Powerboat hulls) so the parts will be light, strong, and very well finished.

Currently on this project, I am debating the value/interest of being able to add a mount for a fuel rail that will allow 3 additional showerform injectors on the R3. This will allow for increased output in high compression naturally aspirated R3s, and for easily running ethanol/E85 for those so inclined (for a 4.5%-6% increase in power/torque, improved cooling, and cheap higher octane). You will be able to do this with the stock ECU (using TuneEdit), or with the plug-and-play aftermarket ECU I am bringing to market for bikes using the same ECU as the R3 (much of the sportbike world).

 

[jlm205]

wayne--keep us posted on progress.
not too many hi-compr ala naturale r3's out there i'm aware of ??

 

[Power-Tripp]

wayne--keep us posted on progress.
not too many hi-compr ala naturale r3's out there i'm aware of ??

Will do.

There are not many that have raised compression, but the interest is starting to grow.
Going from 8.5:1 CR to 10.5:1 CR gives a 5%-6% increase in output across the powerband. But it can increase thermal efficiency at part throttle MUCH more. It is not uncommon to see the same increase in compression cause a 15%-20% reduction in fuel consumption at cruise.

A win-win situation.

 

[Toystoretom]

Like the Piggr said, we truly believe that the K&N 2780's are an underperforming air filter. They are an improvement over the stock setup and you can use them under the Bearclaw for a stealth look, but when you want to make some serious horsepower they limit what you can do.

Just a little reasoning... the stock air filter under the seat is fairly large. Or, if you use the undertank RU-5111 that filter is good sized and works well. What you have to keep in mind this that these large single filters feed only one cylinder at a time, so if you are going to match their performance with a three filter setup each single filter would have to be very large. The 1770's fill the bill and you can angle them forward to clear your knee while riding. But they are big . And noisey.

We have an idea we have on the drawing board right now, and we need to start doing some fab work.