TORS -vs- Jardines

[Power-Tripp]

Here is an interesting comparison of exhausts on the same Rocket:
Same 2007 Rocket III classic (2 weeks apart) with TORS and tuning, and again with Jardines and tuning.
In all runs, 89 octane Shell fuel was used, and individual K&N filters (under stock BearClaw). The Jardines were hand ported at the head flanges, and in the collector, then ceramic coated (to reduce heat on the rider's leg).

Yellow - TORS with downloaded tune.
Purple - TORS with tuning (TuneBoy).

Green - Jardines with downloaded tune.
Red - Jardines with Tuning (TuneBoy). 3000 rpm really responded well to additional fuel and ignition advance. Part throttle and transient response improved even more.

For comparison, a stock R3 usually puts up 106-108 hp on my dyno.

I think the K&N's under the stock (un-cut) BearClaw are at their limit here. A heat block (from the radiator and engine heat) and cutting or removing the bearclaw to install larger filters should allow a bit more. But this is a nice gain with such simple modifications, IMHO.

 

[Pig9r]

I agree 100% with the K&N's being at their limit. Toystoretom and I are trying to work through that now.

Thanks for posting the comparo. Very impressive.

 

[jlm205]

wayne--nice work!!

pig---don't rule out k/n's entirely.
--pred's and 4040-1's would be interesting combo. --???

--just eliminating jardine crossover to left and 4040-1's another possibility. --???

 

[Kmutt]

Nice compare for those of us considering the upgrade. How about Raask? Any numbers or educated guesses on their performance?

mutt

 

[Pig9r]

wayne--nice work!!

pig---don't rule out k/n's entirely.
--pred's and 4040-1's would be interesting combo. --???

--just eliminating jardine crossover to left and 4040-1's another possibility. --???

I mean the 2780's that fit under the claw cover. THe 4040-1's would be great. They have a v-stack molded in them also.

 

[mjbell1]

Preds and K&N

My new Predator pipes are due next week. Would hate to marry them up to inadequate air-flow. Has anybody done any research/or used the 4040-1 compared to the 2780? In all of K&N data they didn't have airflow listed any where, size, the top being used and built in velocity stacks has a lot to say.

Lets hear some opeinions!!!

CAVOK

 

[mikemartin88]

Inadequate?

My new Predator pipes are due next week. Would hate to marry them up to inadequate air-flow.

Is that what you guys are saying - that the 2780s under the Bearclaw is inadequate airflow for the Jars? Or just that you're reching the limit of that setup? I've got the Jars and stock breather now, and definitely want to get some more air, so before I go with the trip K&Ns under the Bearclaw, I want to make sure I'm not wasting time and money...

Mike

 

[Power-Tripp]

All indications seem to show the RU-2780 filters under the BearClaw to be at their limit with Jardines or even better exhaust systems. The engine seems to be running out of intake air flow.

Blocking heat to the intake from the radiator and engine, cutting/removing the bearclaw and using larger/higher flowing filters, etc. seems to add a bit more at higher rpm.

 

[jlm205]

wayne--what kind of increase from 4000 rpm and up would you guess with much better inflow?

 

[Power-Tripp]

The lack of flow really starts to show up around 5000 rpm. In the above example, it was a very delicate balancing act to get the engine to pull well to 6500 rpm consistently, and not drop off after 6000 rpm. Ignition advance was critical, and will be even more so as ambient temps and humidity increase through the Summer and the cylinders fill a bit less due to reduced air density. This will actually make the RU-2780s under the bearclaw look better using corrected numbers on the dyno - one of the pitfalls of dyno numbers as ambient conditions change.

Based on what I have seen with larger filters and a cut or custom bearclaw on a similar R3, there is another 2-3% possible with the Jardine full system. More if the intake air temps are lower.

Every 5.4° F (3° C) that intake air temps drop, gives a 1% increase in output.
This means that pulling 20° F cooler air into the intake (not from behind the radiator or across the hot engine) can be a substantial gain. This means that someone needs to produce a well designed heat block for the R3s using triple filters, IMHO.

Using an exhaust that is more efficiently length (pulse) tuned than the Jardines (such as the Predators, etc.) will show an even greater improvement. The R3 really wants longer primary lengths on the header than the Jardines provide. Inline engines (especially 3 and 6-cylinder engines) are not particularly sensitive to collector length compared to primary lengths, but getting the primary and collector lengths correct will give gains at all engine speeds and loads. This means that the intake flow needs to match.

Clear as mud now, right?