Thoughts on R3 riders and the $&@! Detent Spring

[dandiego]

Careful...gently...

 

[dandiego]

Success!

 

[barbagris]

Success!

Now comes the "fun" part.

 

[dandiego]

Well, that went well. I’d almost say it was fairly easy.

I will post up a step-by-step report of the process, though I mainly used the available cheat sheet and a couple chapters on the clutch and cooling system.

Plus, the input from you guys was very handy.

Lastly, kudos to PreStaged for his invaluable support, patience and friendship. You just can’t underestimate the value of that kind of assistance when you’re in the middle of a ride and need help. Huge thanks, brother.

 

[barbagris]

Well, that went well. I’d almost say it was fairly easy.

- It's really just so ruddy time consuming. As one ages the simple act of crouching and poor eyesight prolongs it further. I find the eyesight thing more and more infuriating.

And this is an issue - I have a Guzzi to open up. I'm going to see if we can get some more gee-gees out of my 40 year old V1000-G5

 

[dandiego]

- It's really just so ruddy time consuming. As one ages the simple act of crouching and poor eyesight prolongs it further. I find the eyesight thing more and more infuriating.

And this is an issue - I have a Guzzi to open up. I'm going to see if we can get some more gee-gees out of my 40 year old V1000-G5

- It's really just so ruddy time consuming. As one ages the simple act of crouching and poor eyesight prolongs it further. I find the eyesight thing more and more infuriating.

You are spot on, sir. He toughest part was removing and reinstalling all of the parts and putting big, fat hands into small places. And, yes, my back is still feeling it!

 

[dandiego]

Prologue for the R3T Detent Spring Issue (PART 1)

(I hope these links work.)


I was on a ride deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains when the transmission kept popping out of gear...mostly 5th. As well, I would get false neutrals; it would take 8 downshifts to get from 5th to 1st.


I should note that I was almost exactly at 58k miles on my 2009 Rocket III Touring.


Having read about these symptoms on R3 Owners (https://www.r3owners.net/) I immediately suspected a broken detent spring. I called a friend in Tampa who’d dealt with not one but TWO broken detent springs on his 2008 R3T (at 20k and 50k miles). He confirmed my suspicions and agreed to overnight me the entire repair kit (consisting of a new spring, the main engine gasket, a water pump o ring, some washers, a clutch stop tool and a clutch basket peen nut). I was fortunate that my friend had the kit ready and waiting and was willing to express mail it to me.


I was also fortunate to be traveling with a master mechanic. Not only was he not afraid to take on the task, he appeared to revel in it. We are pretty confident he has a brain tumor….


The three amigos working on the patient


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-DwF8fNr/0/9ee1f23d/X2/IMG_7525-X2.jpg


I disconnected the battery before starting the work, generally just a good practice to be safe when getting this deep into a bike. The first order of business was to disassemble the front end of the bike including the front wheel, front fender, radiator, front engine cover and clutch basket.


As well, the antifreeze was completely drained. I raised the tank during the entire process to make access to the wiring easier.


Front end removed it can be done without taking off the front wheel but this just made the later processes so much easier to access the bolts etc.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-xKmKzD6/0/62586c9e/XL/IMG_2859-XL.jpg


All the trim pieces around the radiator have to be removed, there are three of them.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-GkK5qMF/0/a114b7bd/XL/IMG_7509-XL.jpg


Radiator trim removed


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-DnLLCtX/0/94590356/XL/IMG_7517-XL.jpg


Radiator removed, it should be noted the fan plug is under the gas tank and is a pain to find but take your time following it up from the radiator.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-xKdMNmr/0/7bde353d/XL/IMG_7536-XL.jpg


Something to note is the orientation of the two dots on the clutch actuator arm they have to be put back in the same orientation when reinstalled.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-gxmPWqD/0/3723a664/XL/IMG_7522-XL.jpg


The water pump cover is removed first (three bolts) and then the 20+ holding on the main cover is next. There are dowel pins that help to align the cover so we used some small screwdrivers to help walk the cover off the main engine case. Take your time as there is a huge gasket around the entire perimeter in our case it was pretty well stuck on so took a while to get everything freed up for final removal. Note the large round chrome piece on the front cover is there for aesthetics there is nothing behind it and DOES NOT have to be removed.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-xKdMNmr/0/7bde353d/XL/IMG_7536-XL.jpg


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-7zcGjtJ/0/eb73f411/XL/IMG_7538-XL.jpg


Here the backside of the cover gives you an idea of the number of bolts etc. involved.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-Wq82zvT/0/4d4fcab6/XL/IMG_7542-XL.jpg


After removing the clutch plate retaining cover (5 small bolts with springs behind them) we then removed the clutches and plates, make sure to keep them in the same order/orientation, and most importantly, the last one with the large bevel spring, if you put that back in the wrong way it wont shift right and has to come apart again.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-NjtWRJB/0/8d366792/XL/IMG_7545-XL.jpg


Here you see the cover and some of the disks and plates removed from the clutch assembly


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-HWdV7qJ/0/534db6c2/XL/IMG_7546-XL.jpg


This is the doohiky that is moving the clutch when you operate the lever at the bars, note the wave washed etc, again must keep in the same orientation, it just slid out of the middle section of the clutch assembly.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-knBVF8L/0/33287bae/XL/IMG_7548-XL.jpg


Next was the removal of the nut holding on the clutch basket assembly it was peened onto the crankshaft so have to remove the peen, you can see the deformed lip in the middle of the nut, again we replaced with new and there is a specific order of assembly outlined in the manual.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-JKWWZn6/0/578829ea/XL/IMG_7549-XL.jpg


Here is a brief breakdown of what's going on once inside the front cover.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...rkway-/i-j676MMt/0/889e990f/XL/innards-XL.jpg


The post that is being pointed too is the other mounting point for the broken spring, the hole you see on the arm to the right is the other end mounting point.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-NCDBkst/0/0eddfb24/XL/IMG_7555-XL.jpg

And this is a picture of said spring installed


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-tCSR5V3/0/8a1f4891/XL/IMG_7568-XL.png


My Triumph-owning friend had also supplied me with a cheat sheet on the entire process, compiled by a member of R3 Owners.


Disassembly went fairly quickly, though we had to improvise removing the clutch assembly nut as we hadn’t yet received the clutch stop tool. A strap wrench did the trick and we awaited the overnight package with the required parts.


We expected to lose a quart or more of oil, but hardly any at all spilled out as the front end was slightly elevated by the bike lift we used.


Once the UPS van pulled up, we immediately got to work putting everything back together.


Note: Some R3 owners commented on the photos that I posted, stating the lifter was worn and should be replaced. Well, that would have to wait as I was in the middle of a ride with no access to that $45 part.


This is the lifter in question


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-mpCP459/0/e71569b8/XL/IMG_7623-XL.jpg

There were some very technical items that require special care, such as some needle bearings that would scatter if not handled properly. As well, we purchased some gasket sealer and let that set while we worked on the other items.


Specific to the needle bearings. There is a collar in the middle of the clutch basket that keeps them in place. So long as you are aware of this collar and make sure it stays put as you R&R the basket you will be fine, if it comes out and you let those needle bearing get loose get some beer your going to be there for a while fiddling with them all getting back into place, use heavy grease to keep them put if this happens, in our case we did not have this issue.


We did not get a picture of this specific part.

(Continued...)

 

[dandiego]

(PART 2)

Everything went well, though the new spring was a bit difficult to hook into place. We tried different ways but nothing would fit perfectly. My mechanic friend then sanded the burr off one end that he thought was preventing the spring end from settling into place. And voila! It went right on.


Note: It appears the new spring, costing a whopping $3.89, is a little beefier than the original one.


The clutch was reassembled...and that required placing the plates back in like a puzzle. There are two gears on the back of the clutch basket so they have to be aligned in order for it to install fully, even then you also have to make sure the 5 pins align with their corresponding holes on the back of the clutch assembly. This was easy enough to do once the gears are aligned you can spin the oil drive by hand to get the pins aligned and once the basket slides home you can't spin it anymore by hand. The prior photo with the arrows and titles can be referenced in regard to these comments if needed.


The clutch stop tool worked just as it was supposed to and enabled the large nut to be properly torqued (74ft lbs). We then peened the nut.


The engine face was replaced and about 20+ bolts were torqued into place; all of those nuts are thankfully the same size. You will also have to align the water pump vane that is installed in the cover place with the drive rode behind it, again just spin the vane by hand until it slots in and then you won't be able to move it anymore manually. Once the radiator was replaced, we poured in the required amount of coolant, making sure to remove the upper breather bolt.


It is located on the left side of the bike right above where the water hose goes into the block.


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcyc...kway-/i-Vdr9PN5/0/05a46090/XL/IMG_7644-XL.jpg


We then replaced the front fender and wheel, reconnected the battery and started it up. I took it out for a test ride and everything worked perfectly...it actually felt as if it shifted more smoothly than before.


In the 3 days that followed, I added another 1,500 miles...in which the bike performed flawlessly.


Some points to consider if you experience a detent spring failure:

1. Obtain a copy of the cheat sheet and the clutch chapter from the R3 manual.
   
   
2. Consider replacing the lifter and any other worn parts at the same time you replace the spring.
   
   
3. The items in the detent spring kit, that can be purchased from Triumph, Bike Bandit or other bike parts retailers, include these items:
   

• Anti-rotation jig (clutch stop tool) - This is a MUST have we just lucked out with the strap wrench
  
  
• Clutch nut M22
  
  
• Clutch cover gasket
  
  
• Water pump cover seal (it is an O ring so worse case reuse the old one if not torn)
  
  
• Detent spring
  
  
• Washer ID 22
  
  
• Washer c clutch
  

You’ll also need gasket sealer and anti-seize compound.


Some tools my mechanic friend needed were: Several metric sockets (8,10,12,13,15mm), a breaker bar, a 1/4” torque wrench (some torque values are very small), slotted screwdrivers—especially a long, slender one and some socket extensions.

I hope this helps someone.


Good luck!

 

[PaddyO]

Thanks Dan! Great write up! Very clear. Thanks for taking the time to take the pictures while you worked on the bike in the middle of your trip. That shows great patience and consideration. Could you post a link to the cheat sheet to which you referred? Also, is the detent spring kit to which you referred, does it go by that name when looking for it on the Bike Bandit or Triumph websites? I am thinking of getting one ahead of time in case my detent spring decides to go.

 

[dandiego]

Thanks Dan! Great write up! Very clear. Thanks for taking the time to take the pictures while you worked on the bike in the middle of your trip. That shows great patience and consideration. Could you post a link to the cheat sheet to which you referred? Also, is the detent spring kit to which you referred, does it go by that name when looking for it on the Bike Bandit or Triumph websites? I am thinking of getting one ahead of time in case my detent spring decides to go.

It’s in IDK’s signature line. Or here:

Index of /r3docs

Here are the parts you’ll need: