O2 sensor/tuners

[dbutton12]

I am very familiar with automotive tune programs and have used several different brands, some good, some not so good. It seems as if the group on this forum favors the PCV. I have no preference at this point because I'm just doing a little research.

My question is this: Which manufacturer/programs still retain the O2 sensor as an ACTIVE input during most operating modes? I like to have my cake and eat it too, as in, I want more performance out of my 08 R3T, BUT I am unwilling to sacrifice driveability or mileage. The O2 sensor is one of the most important inputs used in the active correction to fuel maps. I have heard repeatedly both here on this forum and from my harley riding buds of various power commander options, most of which eliminate the O2 sensor as an input. WHY???
I am not overly impressed with the Rocket performance (as compared to automotive applications). I get 40mpg with the R3T which is about what my Harley buds are getting with their 106's.....so I can clean their clocks on acceleration but that really isn't much in the way of bragging rights because the Harleys are such a POS performance-wise. My 01 GTO with stock bottom end is pumping 575 all-motor HP on 93 octane gas AND it still is able to pull 24-25 mpg on a trip if I don't beat on it. This is also the same car that my wife can take to the grocery store and quietly idle through town in 3rd gear at 1200rpm! This is a 3200 lb car with an engine only twice the size of the Rocket. And, by the way, there are no cats on it, but there is a wide-band O2 sensor in each of the header collectors.
Sorry about ranting, but it seems like the Rocket could be so much more performance and mileage-wise. I do realize the Rocket is more adept in the stump-pulling torque area, but on paper, the HP-mileage figures should be much better. The only mods I have performed thus far have been the D&D exhaust, fab'd airbox with K&N's and elimination of the EVAP system to make room for some real horns. I am scheduling some dyno time shortly, but only to baseline it so that I can actually monitor any improvements. I have not had much seat time on it yet because I bought late in the season, but so far it is a keeper and I'm much happier with it than the last Harley I had!!!!
Thanks in advance, Dale

 

[HansO]

I am running a PCV + Auto Tune with the AFR map I created to give the best of both worlds so if I am cruising on a steady low throttle I am run at a higher AFR ( leaner) and it is as smooth as a babies bum but give the stick and she become a tyre shredding beastie the Auto Tune comes with a Wide Band O2 sensor.
Unfortunately the PCV does not correct ignition but we use TuneECU to load a canned map usually created by someone like Wayne from PowerTripp this corrects the ignition retard then you can either run a PCV + AT to fix your fuelling as I have or take it to a dyno guy like Wayne and he can customise completely for you

 

[warp9.9]

Both the tuning software aids have the ability to utilize the O2 sensor. But I could not tell you how finite the program in the software is. By this I cannot tell you if the ecu adaptations work on both L table and F table fueling or if it is just a across the board type adaptation. That being said if one were to control the area where the O2 sensor would be testing a better fueling control could be achieved. Lots of dyno time needed. I would suggest you buy your own dyno for this. I believe in the long run it would be cheaper. The problem with the PCV and Auto tune is the fule table percentages are to wide/ meaning where it monitors is not as finite as the ecu programs. What I am saying is if the pcv uses from 0% to 2% as its first monitoring table it is not as accurate as the ecu maps are which at least go from 0 to 1 to 2 to 3, 4, 5, 6, % before they start jumping to a larger span which is 2 % intervals until 10% the 5% intervals until 40% and then 10% until 70% then it jumps to 78% then 100% So if one could L tables are by map sensor pressures and if you change the f to l switch over points, it might be finer except you have no control over the rpm column spacing is. You can only get so close and then even the ecu interpolates its adjustments between the hard program targets. I cannot tell you how finite the interpolation formula is in the program. I suspect not that finite or the ecu would take to much memory and takes to long to calculate, make the changes and monitor the next level changes needed.

If you use the horse power to weight ratio of your monster GTO you would see that the Rocket meets it at 143.75 HP. No need to add anything except tune it properly the way it comes from the factory and make maybe Air filter and exhaust changes if needed and your there!!!!

Of course I am a nutter and want more HP and am willing to sacrifice some MPG. Right now at my present build the best mileage I have achieved is 38 mph. I am sure I could tune more in without loosing the power and I am sure I will not control my wrist enough to see the obtainable fuel mileage because I like to have fun with it, even while cruising on the highway on a long trip I like to twist the wick as some people would say.
Others might say my self control is weak and I would aggree

 

[dbutton12]

Touring HP?

I'll have to check, but I think the R3t is only rated at <120HP.....so you must be referencing the other Rocket models, which i'm sure are rated closer to 150 HP. Maybe some of you have noticed this, but as you get closer to the "sweet spot" for both fuel and timing you end up with better efficiency (mileage) and power. I won't deny that in the over 70% tps range, even the factory tunes resort to an overrich and (usually conservative) timing because of the fact you are asking for max power,,,,and nearly all will default to open loop (no O2 used) fuel trim values. If you are running consistently in the over 70% range, you are probably suicidal or racing on closed circuits.......and in either case you sure aren't too concerned with fuel mileage....only power. When I'm cruising in the 70-80 MPH range, the tps is around 28-30%, so that range of 30% and under is where I want the most efficiency....as I crank the throttle beyond that I will be less concerned with efficiency and more about power. A lot of automotive applications will run 13.8-14.2 at low load and then revert to about 11.5-12 for the transition into power mode where they may drop to 4-5:1 ratio.

 

[dbutton12]

PCV + Auto tune it is...

I am running a PCV + Auto Tune with the AFR map I created to give the best of both worlds so if I am cruising on a steady low throttle I am run at a higher AFR ( leaner) and it is as smooth as a babies bum but give the stick and she become a tyre shredding beastie the Auto Tune comes with a Wide Band O2 sensor.
Unfortunately the PCV does not correct ignition but we use TuneECU to load a canned map usually created by someone like Wayne from PowerTripp this corrects the ignition retard then you can either run a PCV + AT to fix your fuelling as I have or take it to a dyno guy like Wayne and he can customise completely for you

Thanks, sounds like a plan. I should be able to baseline this in another few weeks (as long as we don't get another big snowstorm). I'll let you know what comes of that and meanwhile get myself the PCV.

 

[HansO]

Thanks, sounds like a plan. I should be able to baseline this in another few weeks (as long as we don't get another big snowstorm). I'll let you know what comes of that and meanwhile get myself the PCV.

PM me your E-Mail if you want my AFR Map for the PCV + AT

 

[warp9.9]

I'll have to check, but I think the R3t is only rated at <120HP.....so you must be referencing the other Rocket models, which i'm sure are rated closer to 150 HP. Maybe some of you have noticed this, but as you get closer to the "sweet spot" for both fuel and timing you end up with better efficiency (mileage) and power. I won't deny that in the over 70% tps range, even the factory tunes resort to an overrich and (usually conservative) timing because of the fact you are asking for max power,,,,and nearly all will default to open loop (no O2 used) fuel trim values. If you are running consistently in the over 70% range, you are probably suicidal or racing on closed circuits.......and in either case you sure aren't too concerned with fuel mileage....only power. When I'm cruising in the 70-80 MPH range, the tps is around 28-30%, so that range of 30% and under is where I want the most efficiency....as I crank the throttle beyond that I will be less concerned with efficiency and more about power. A lot of automotive applications will run 13.8-14.2 at low load and then revert to about 11.5-12 for the transition into power mode where they may drop to 4-5:1 ratio.

Your right but most people load a different tune which unleashes the beast in the touring to a level of the standard rockets.
below is a dyno sheet of a stock touring and with the change of pipe to a Carpenter 3-1 megaphone and just open OEM velocity stacks you can get a good idea of the power increase.



Open loop ocurrs when the programed fule ratio has been varried past the 14.5:1 to 14:57:1 programed in the ecu and on the particular map installed. This is the only area closed loop runs in with the narrow band O2 sensor.

 

[dbutton12]

PC 5 for 08 touring??

I've been pricing the PCV at different locations and all seem to direct me to the PCIII for 08 models. Whats up with that?? Amazon and Brit Customs are in the $325-360 range.....anyone cheaper?

 

[warp9.9]

I've been pricing the PCV at different locations and all seem to direct me to the PCIII for 08 models. Whats up with that?? Amazon and Brit Customs are in the $325-360 range.....anyone cheaper?

Order PCV for a 09 its the first year they made them for. If you tell them any other earlier year and model they will refer yu to the PCIII. I think this is to deplete their supplies. PCV for the 09 model will work on all Rockets Standard and Classic from 04 to 09