Electrical Gremlins Part 5: The Reckoning?

[dennisgsy]

I spent a few hours today going through my electrics without managing to rectify the problem. I did however make a short video to demonstrate the problem. From what I have read on this forum, another new solenoid kit seems like the next thing to try. Any further advice or suggestions most welcome. Thanks

Rocket X starter problems

I made this short video to demonstrate the issues I’m having with my 2015 Triumph Rocket X. This is a 10th anniversary of the Rocket 3.

The battery is not very old and has been professionally tested. It has good cranking power.

I fitted a new solenoid kit about 2 years ago and it seemed to fix the problem for a time. Now it’s back again as shown in the video.

Having read various forums I have removed the starter motor and cleaned the commutator and checked cleaned other parts.

I removed the starter relay, which was very loosely fitted, sprayed it with electrical contact cleaner. I replaced it firmly.

With a volt meter connected to the positive side of the battery and the negative on the starter casing I checked the voltage while trying to turn the engine over. It dropped from around 12 volts to around 10.8 volts.

The multi-pin connector from the ignition switch was checked and cleaned.

I think another new solenoid kit maybe the next thing to try.

 

[1K9]

This fixed all my starting problems.

 

[dennisgsy]

I spent a few hours today going through my electrics without managing to rectify the problem. I did however make a short video to demonstrate the problem. From what I have read on this forum, another new solenoid kit seems like the next thing to try. Any further advice or suggestions most welcome. Thanks

Rocket X starter problems

I made this short video to demonstrate the issues I’m having with my 2015 Triumph Rocket X. This is a 10th anniversary of the Rocket 3.

The battery is not very old and has been professionally tested. It has good cranking power.

I fitted a new solenoid kit about 2 years ago and it seemed to fix the problem for a time. Now it’s back again as shown in the video.

Having read various forums I have removed the starter motor and cleaned the commutator and checked cleaned other parts.

I removed the starter relay, which was very loosely fitted, sprayed it with electrical contact cleaner. I replaced it firmly.

With a volt meter connected to the positive side of the battery and the negative on the starter casing I checked the voltage while trying to turn the engine over. It dropped from around 12 volts to around 10.8 volts.

The multi-pin connector from the ignition switch was checked and cleaned.

I think another new solenoid kit maybe the next thing to try.

The cause of my starter problem has been identified and a temporary fix made.

A friend located the problem which is a weak Earth going to the starter relay. He used a 75w bulb to test the earth under load.

It’s the red/white wire which runs to the relay and when both the side-stand switch and the clutch switch are in the closed position it shows zero ohms on the test meter. However, when a load is applied using the 75w bulb it fails to light.

A temporary fix is to run a short wire from the relay to Earth on the frame.

I will be tracing the faulty circuit as the next step. It could possibly be one of the connectors from the clutch or side-stand switch. At least I can now get my bike started !!

 

[TURBO200R4]

The cause of my starter problem has been identified and a temporary fix made.

A friend located the problem which is a weak Earth going to the starter relay. He used a 75w bulb to test the earth under load.

It’s the red/white wire which runs to the relay and when both the side-stand switch and the clutch switch are in the closed position it shows zero ohms on the test meter. However, when a load is applied using the 75w bulb it fails to light.

A temporary fix is to run a short wire from the relay to Earth on the frame.

I will be tracing the faulty circuit as the next step. It could possibly be one of the connectors from the clutch or side-stand switch. At least I can now get my bike started !!

i think in video it sounds like have a battery problem

your thinking in the last thread is a little off
all safety's go to ecu
example
clutch lever switch
kickstand switch
neutral switch
starter button switch
When ecu see all safety's is ok the ecu then furnishes the ground/earth to the starter relay.
now u can ground/earth that ecu wire going to relay to bypass all safety's and start the motor (never seen it done with a light bulb i use a fuse a test light might work)

the most likely culprit would be the clutch switch try holding the starter button in and letting the clutch out slow. some times that will help a dirty switch.
if that works u can spray it with cleaner.
hth

 

[Son_Of_Dog]

The cause of my starter problem has been identified and a temporary fix made.

A friend located the problem which is a weak Earth going to the starter relay. He used a 75w bulb to test the earth under load.

It’s the red/white wire which runs to the relay and when both the side-stand switch and the clutch switch are in the closed position it shows zero ohms on the test meter. However, when a load is applied using the 75w bulb it fails to light.

A temporary fix is to run a short wire from the relay to Earth on the frame.

I will be tracing the faulty circuit as the next step. It could possibly be one of the connectors from the clutch or side-stand switch. At least I can now get my bike started !!

Please let us know what else you find, I would be curious to see how it turns out.

 

[dennisgsy]

i think in video it sounds like have a battery problem

your thinking in the last thread is a little off
all safety's go to ecu
example
clutch lever switch
kickstand switch
neutral switch
starter button switch
When ecu see all safety's is ok the ecu then furnishes the ground/earth to the starter relay.
now u can ground/earth that ecu wire going to relay to bypass all safety's and start the motor (never seen it done with a light bulb i use a fuse a test light might work)

the most likely culprit would be the clutch switch try holding the starter button in and letting the clutch out slow. some times that will help a dirty switch.
if that works u can spray it with cleaner.
hth

Thanks for your comments and further pointers to solving the problem.

This morning I went to start the bike with the temporary earth wire connected and although the engine turned over nicely with the starter, the engine would not fire up.
I removed one spark plug and sure enough no spark !

Later I attached my Tune ECU kit to see if any errors were being reported with just the ignition on and the temporary earth wire was disconnected. There were no errors so then I hit the starter button. The engine turned over just enough and fired up immediately. At this point I still had one spark plug out !!

I refitted the the spark plug and tried to start it again without reconnecting the temporary earth.
Back to the original problem where the starter solenoid would activate for less than a second and not long enough to get the engine to turn over. I tried letting in the clutch and out again with no effect.

The Tune ECU was still connected. The Master Relay always lights up green. I have also seen the Clutch and Starter Relay light up green at some point (not shown in photo).

I then decided to tap the bike into first gear then back to neutral and then when I hit the starter button again it turned over the engine and fired up immediately (see 2nd photo).
I successfully repeated the stop/start procedure a couple more times.

As it's getting late where I am I left it for today and I will try again tomorrow.
So my hunch now is the neutral switch may be the cause of the intermittent fault.

I will post further updates if I discovering anything new.

 

[1K9]

Thanks for your comments and further pointers to solving the problem.

This morning I went to start the bike with the temporary earth wire connected and although the engine turned over nicely with the starter, the engine would not fire up.
I removed one spark plug and sure enough no spark !

Later I attached my Tune ECU kit to see if any errors were being reported with just the ignition on and the temporary earth wire was disconnected. There were no errors so then I hit the starter button. The engine turned over just enough and fired up immediately. At this point I still had one spark plug out !!

I refitted the the spark plug and tried to start it again without reconnecting the temporary earth.
Back to the original problem where the starter solenoid would activate for less than a second and not long enough to get the engine to turn over. I tried letting in the clutch and out again with no effect.

The Tune ECU was still connected. The Master Relay always lights up green. I have also seen the Clutch and Starter Relay light up green at some point (not shown in photo).

I then decided to tap the bike into first gear then back to neutral and then when I hit the starter button again it turned over the engine and fired up immediately (see 2nd photo).
I successfully repeated the stop/start procedure a couple more times.
As it's getting late where I am I left it for today and I will try again tomorrow.
So my hunch now is the neutral switch may be the cause of the intermittent fault.

I will post further updates if I discovering anything new.

Em moody Brit bikes, grrrrr

 

[TURBO200R4]

I think if the green neutral light is on then the ecu knows it is in neutral.
If the starter/solenoid clicks then all safety's r met and the ecu is grounding the starter relay
What u need to do is put a volt meter and watch while cranking if it drops below 10 volts then the engine management relay and fuel relay turns off. Sometimes with a click click click and sometimes with just a click.
If u post a video with a volt meter attached i can try to tell u if it is battery or starter solenoid problem

 

[dennisgsy]

I think if the green neutral light is on then the ecu knows it is in neutral.
If the starter/solenoid clicks then all safety's r met and the ecu is grounding the starter relay
What u need to do is put a volt meter and watch while cranking if it drops below 10 volts then the engine management relay and fuel relay turns off. Sometimes with a click click click and sometimes with just a click.
If u post a video with a volt meter attached i can try to tell u if it is battery or starter solenoid problem

Thanks for your reply.

Today I tried starting the bike again with the voltmeter across the battery terminals. It now seems to start the first time every time !!

Is it possible that Tune ECU would have reset the bike's ECU in some way?

Further comments and a link to the first video showing the voltage change when the fault was occurring in the video description.

 

[TURBO200R4]

Thanks for your reply.

Today I tried starting the bike again with the voltmeter across the battery terminals. It now seems to start the first time every time !!

Is it possible that Tune ECU would have reset the bike's ECU in some way?

Further comments and a link to the first video showing the voltage change when the fault was occurring in the video description.

i will try to explain with a code for transmission
first road test 1st then 2nd then 3rd then 4th
second time all good
third time 1st then 2nd then several bumps to 3rd then sets code and fail safes (limp mode stuck in 2nd)
it will start out in 2nd and stay in 2nd but if u stop and turn off ignition and back on it will not clear the code but it will reset the ecu so it will work and shift until it (ecu) see's the problem
the volt meter dropped to 9.16 volts that's pretty low

try again u might try the same but do a load drop by turning the lights on for 5 minutes.