Autotune Unresolved Issue

muleskinner · Feb 26, 2013

I know NOTHING about Tuneecu or Tuneboy. The PCV ONLY adjusts fuel, not timing. Dynojet should have a map for a bike similar to yours. If they don't you will need to go on the rollers and have a MAP made just for your bike. My 011 R3T with D&D mufflers, secondaries removed and air box mods, works great with the Dynojet MAP for that application. If I go to triple pods, or any other major mods, I will have to go on the rollers and spend money. That was what I was trying to avoid.

warp9.9 · Feb 26, 2013

Georgia Boy said:
Warp,

You know WAY more than I do about tuning brother....you lost me at the trim tables you were referring to....you may be onto something about there being a difference between the Classic and Roadster with regards to tuning. This would maybe help explain why Hans' AFR table is running fine with AT on many other captains' bikes, but my Roadster is having issue with it. I just hope that someone can shed some light on what I can do to mate up an AFR table with my AT that she likes better, so I can actually create a base map with it as advertised.

I appreciate all the feedback......bring on the brainstorming!

muleskinner said:
Bingo! You are right. My dealer told me one time the ECU from a Roadster would not work on a Touring. Why don't you unload the Tuneboy tune and Hanso' tune and then try it with the Dynojet MAP and the stock ECU settings. You can always reload the Tuneboy tune and Hanso' tune. The A/T only tunes to the set MAP loaded into the PCV. The A/T just looks at your bike and trys to make your bike run to the specs of the loaded MAP if that makes any sense.

Georgia Boy said:
Muleskinner,
Correct me if I am wrong (I know only the basics of tuning) but I was under the assumption that my Tuneecu tune just opened the secondaries, raised the rev and speed limiters and corrected the retarded timing. It has no bearing on the PCV tuning (?).

With regards to the PCV AFR table, as stated before I only have the one from Hans. I have been unable to find an AFR table on this Forum or the dyno jet website. The maps that are there are straight fuel maps and do not have the AFR tables, and besides putting all the same AFRs in each column, I have no idea how to make one

Hans' table works fine until I accept the trims, and then I start running lean in the low range.

Just thinking here. 2009 and older ecu 's are different then the ones on the roadster and the ones on a touring. Neither roadster and touring are the same. SO if you adding a map that was made to intercept a signal from a older ecu to either of the othe ecu which are not sending out the same signals to intercept are you adding fuel in the right areas? Now I suppose a Power commander map for each particular ecu Roadster and touring attached to a auto tuner with fuel rations set as a target will tun ethem bikes to the target. Each one of them should be able to auto tune and be sent to the approriate PCV for the ecu.

I would not suspect a a auto tune map from a older ecu would not run right when sent to a PCV on a newer ecu. Just thinking though. 5 also suspect you could not send the older ecu fuel trim tables to a newer evu's auto tun. Now program something like that in each auto tun sure but to just dump it I would not think so.

1olbull · Feb 27, 2013

FWIW - I have a 2012 R3R with trip K&Ns, TORS, Tune ECU, PCV+AT WITH HansO's tunes and It runs like a striped ass ape. No issues here with anything. Not smart enough to offer anything constructive; but, I doubt your troubles are due to a different ECU.
Just saying . . .
1olbull

bagman · Feb 27, 2013

0 in an AFR table field just means the AT won't adjust the rpm/throttle position.

the reason you will see greater numbers at lower rpms is because how the ecm works. the ecm uses f & L tables. the f tables look at rpm/throttle position. the L tables use rpm/air pressure. Then you have the f-L switch table that controls when the ecm swaps between the two tables depending on rpm/throttle position.

now the f tables work like the pcv, but since the L tables use air pressure, it changes the fuel on a variable that the pcv isn't tracking and is always changing.

you can bypass this by adjusting the f-L switch table and setting all to 0. then this will have the ecm & pcv/at using the same measurements all the time by only using the f tables in the ecm. DISCLAIMER: I m not saying this is the right or best way to do things. try at your own risk!

NOTE: on the pcv/at afr table, set the 0 throttle position 500-1500rpm to 0. otherwise the bikes idle will surge all the time. you can monitor the afr at idle with the power commander software and adjust the fuel as needed.

Georgia Boy · Feb 27, 2013

1olbull said:
FWIW - I have a 2012 R3R with trip K&Ns, TORS, Tune ECU, PCV+AT WITH HansO's tunes and It runs like a striped ass ape. No issues here with anything. Not smart enough to offer anything constructive; but, I doubt your troubles are due to a different ECU.
Just saying . . .
1olbull

Bull,
When you accept your trims, do you have high values consistently in your low range? Which tune are you running with Tuneecu? I have a couple of different maps from Hans. Would you be willing to shoot me a copy of the one you are running (if you have a copy on your PC)?
Also, my bike runs great.....until I accept the trims.

bagman said:
0 in an AFR table field just means the AT won't adjust the rpm/throttle position.

the reason you will see greater numbers at lower rpms is because how the ecm works. the ecm uses f & L tables. the f tables look at rpm/throttle position. the L tables use rpm/air pressure. Then you have the f-L switch table that controls when the ecm swaps between the two tables depending on rpm/throttle position.

now the f tables work like the pcv, but since the L tables use air pressure, it changes the fuel on a variable that the pcv isn't tracking and is always changing.

you can bypass this by adjusting the f-L switch table and setting all to 0. then this will have the ecm & pcv/at using the same measurements all the time by only using the f tables in the ecm. DISCLAIMER: I m not saying this is the right or best way to do things. try at your own risk!

NOTE: on the pcv/at afr table, set the 0 throttle position 500-1500rpm to 0. otherwise the bikes idle will surge all the time. you can monitor the afr at idle with the power commander software and adjust the fuel as needed.

Bagman,
Tracking on the Os on the AFR Table in the 0 throttle position range. I must admit you lost me on the FL switch tables, but I can probably figure it out if it is one of the options on PCV software. When you say try this at my own risk, does this mean that it could damage my bike if done improperly? I take it you have tried this, or know someone who has?

HansO · Feb 27, 2013

bagman said:
0 in an AFR table field just means the AT won't adjust the rpm/throttle position.

the reason you will see greater numbers at lower rpms is because how the ecm works. the ecm uses f & L tables. the f tables look at rpm/throttle position. the L tables use rpm/air pressure. Then you have the f-L switch table that controls when the ecm swaps between the two tables depending on rpm/throttle position.

now the f tables work like the pcv, but since the L tables use air pressure, it changes the fuel on a variable that the pcv isn't tracking and is always changing.

you can bypass this by adjusting the f-L switch table and setting all to 0. then this will have the ecm & pcv/at using the same measurements all the time by only using the f tables in the ecm. DISCLAIMER: I m not saying this is the right or best way to do things. try at your own risk!

NOTE: on the pcv/at afr table, set the 0 throttle position 500-1500rpm to 0. otherwise the bikes idle will surge all the time. you can monitor the afr at idle with the power commander software and adjust the fuel as needed.

Georgia Boy said:
Bull,
When you accept your trims, do you have high values consistently in your low range? Which tune are you running with Tuneecu? I have a couple of different maps from Hans. Would you be willing to shoot me a copy of the one you are running (if you have a copy on your PC)?
Also, my bike runs great.....until I accept the trims.

Bagman,
Tracking on the Os on the AFR Table in the 0 throttle position range. I must admit you lost me on the FL switch tables, but I can probably figure it out if it is one of the options on PCV software. When you say try this at my own risk, does this mean that it could damage my bike if done improperly? I take it you have tried this, or know someone who has?

I would try changing the F/L table switching to 3 not 0 I believe you still need the L table for idle reasons which is something I had discussed with Wayne Tripp sometime ago before I fitted the PCV + AT as I was having a rough spot issue
Also I would not bother aceppting the trims, I cleared my fuel table except for the zero throttle 20's (which stop snatchyness comming of a closed throttle) and run without accepting the trims as in my case I go from dragging a 450/500kg (990/1,100lb) camper thousands of km's to just running around here on the coast and the occasional trip up in to higher alittude to Canberra so my load changes drastically and by not accepting the trims the PCV + AT can make great adjustments all the time and bike runs great.
So in short if you clear the trims you acepted and dont bvother acepting them again all wil be fine.
Hans

muleskinner · Feb 27, 2013

hanso said:
I would try changing the F/L table switching to 3 not 0 I believe you still need the L table for idle reasons which is something I had discussed with Wayne Tripp sometime ago before I fitted the PCV + AT as I was having a rough spot issue
Also I would not bother aceppting the trims, I cleared my fuel table except for the zero throttle 20's (which stop snatchyness comming of a closed throttle) and run without accepting the trims as in my case I go from dragging a 450/500kg (990/1,100lb) camper thousands of km's to just running around here on the coast and the occasional trip up in to higher alittude to Canberra so my load changes drastically and by not accepting the trims the PCV + AT can make great adjustments all the time and bike runs great.
So in short if you clear the trims you acepted and dont bvother acepting them again all wil be fine.
Hans

So Hans. If I'm understanding this right, for him, he could just get rid of the A/T unit? This is becoming clear as mud here.

HansO · Feb 27, 2013

muleskinner said:
So Hans. If I'm understanding this right, for him, he could just get rid of the A/T unit? This is becoming clear as mud here.

no not get rid of it just let it keep adjusting itself and not accept the trims as this caused me problems because of my vastly different riding conditions, in fact there is no reason that you have to acept the trims it is supposed to making fine tune faster but I honestly don't notice the trimming except for the first 1 or 2 km's after unhitching the camper it seems a bit richer, tending to want to lift the front up faster and that is only because the bike has been running richer while towing other than that it runs flawless if I leave the trims unacepted.
I am about start on making a different version of my AFR Table but I have to get the funds ($175 a run just get a reading) together as this time I plan to do it on a dyno to get more accurate feed back instead of seat of pants which I used last time, I will post when I have done this.

bagman · Feb 27, 2013

The F & L tables are seen/adjusted in the ecm with TuneECU software. Try at your own rick mean if you break something, I'm not responsible. What works for me may not work for anyone else.

Georgia Boy said:
Bagman,
Tracking on the Os on the AFR Table in the 0 throttle position range. I must admit you lost me on the FL switch tables, but I can probably figure it out if it is one of the options on PCV software. When you say try this at my own risk, does this mean that it could damage my bike if done improperly? I take it you have tried this, or know someone who has?

muleskinner · Feb 27, 2013

Okay Hans. Walk me through this one. This is my understanding of the system. The PCV is a piggy back unit that over rides the stock ECU MAP. Right? The A/T unit sniffs the exhaust gases and tries to make adjustments (trim) to the MAP, so each individual bike runs to the air fuel ratios that Dynojet's MAP calls for. So. If you don't accept the trims, your bike will never run at the A/F ratios the Dynojet MAP calls for. Right or wrong?

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