Almost done .... now just need the right tune

[blip]

After a lot of agonizing and reading on this forum, and great advice from it's participants, and waiting for the parts I finally have them all in the mail.

Right now I have a stock 2014 roadster. In about a week it will be equiped with a carpenter sidewinder exhuast and a ramair filter.

So now..... I need to find the right tune. Does anyone have a good tune for this setup that they would not mind sharing? I have the Tuneecu cable already.

Also, are there any ways / recommendations for monitoring AFR to adjust the tune if needed? (i.e. is there an afr datalog that you can access with stock equipment, or is there a recommended sensor I should be considering).

 

[Fingers]

I'm sure if you send @HansO a pm and ask nicely he will be able to accommodate you with a proper tune.He is the man!

 

[blip]

I'm sure if you send @HansO a pm and ask nicely he will be able to accommodate you with a proper tune.He is the man!

Sounds good. Thanks

 

[scot in exile]

Hanso Hanso he's the man if he cant do it no one can

 

[Claviger]

Regarding your second question, about AFR datalogging. There are a few options, but any of them that log based on the Stock OBD2 data is going to be less than optimal, the stock ECU sends data really slow, so you get a jagged looking log that is difficult to tune off unless you use a log viewer that has interpolation, and even then, its still sort of 1/2 assed.

The best way imho, is a PC-V + AT + POD-300 + 2 bar Map, all connected to vehicle speed and engine temp. You get all required data at a Vastly higher logging rate (12 times a second) than the stock ECU (about 1.5 times a second). This setup is far from cheap though, something like $1,000, and ignition isn't even there yet, another $300.

 

[blip]

Regarding your second question, about AFR datalogging. There are a few options, but any of them that log based on the Stock OBD2 data is going to be less than optimal, the stock ECU sends data really slow, so you get a jagged looking log that is difficult to tune off unless you use a log viewer that has interpolation, and even then, its still sort of 1/2 assed.

The best way imho, is a PC-V + AT + POD-300 + 2 bar Map, all connected to vehicle speed and engine temp. You get all required data at a Vastly higher logging rate (12 times a second) than the stock ECU (about 1.5 times a second). This setup is far from cheap though, something like $1,000, and ignition isn't even there yet, another $300.

That does sound awesome .... but expensive.
Has anyone tried the innovate LM-2? It does use the ODB2 connector so it will still have the reduced samples every 1.5 seconds.

 

[Claviger]

I have an LM-2. It has terrible latency on everything except the O2 sensor, because of the OBD issues. It can be used, but, the slow update of TPS and RPM make it a bit of a challenge to tune by.

You can get around that by wiring the sensors directly in, so it doesn't rely on the ECU, but it's a lot of harness hacking and not something I was a fan of. You get raw voltage values instead of % for TPS, IAT, and MAP.

 

[blip]

I have an LM-2. It has terrible latency on everything except the O2 sensor, because of the OBD issues. It can be used, but, the slow update of TPS and RPM make it a bit of a challenge to tune by.

You can get around that by wiring the sensors directly in, so it doesn't rely on the ECU, but it's a lot of harness hacking and not something I was a fan of. You get raw voltage values instead of % for TPS, IAT, and MAP.

makes sense. I'll just have to save up

 

[blip]

So another member recently posted about the Dobek AFR+ in another thread. I just checked the website and the price is reasonable. Is their datalogging any good? Would this be close to the power commander or more like the LC2 which the poort alignment and refresh rate.

 

[Claviger]

Personally, I don't like the dobeck, but it does work.

The dobeck is the equivalent to a PC-V+AT, and a gauge that allows targeting certain mixtures at certain RPMs. It can work to get a tune fairly close, but it doesn't have the granularity of a proper fueling table. Think of it as a old school interface to modern technology, like adjusting a digital carb.

Carpenter pipes on a Ramair bike are going to be extremely close to the 80% peak duty cycle hard coded into the ECU at peak RPM. Also, any tune you get will not be perfect no matter who writes it. As such, I'd suggest using a good base TuneECU tune that will get you close. If you can get it on the dyno to get tweaked for your bike do so, if not, getting a PC-V+AT, can get you really close to perfect. PC-V has the added benefit of allowing you to use the last 20% duty cycle the Keihin ECU locks you out of.

Don't underestimate how much more flow your new parts add, there are L and F tables changes that are required or you'll be in the 18:1 AFR range high RPM and 16:1 range low/mid rpm.

The other option is mail your ECU to Carpenter to get flashed, when doing so, they will be converting you to Tuneboy, This is probably the best option for a rock solid base tune, but costs, I think $200 (license fee for Tuneboy).

If a local tuner can directly write TuneECU or Tuneboy, that's your best option. Otherwise, I suggest a PC-V+AT plus a good base tune. For tuning the PC-V using AT, you don't want to "accept trims" too many times though. The method I use is leaving 20% authority for the AT, go on a long ride covering many different RPMs in different gears, accept those trims. Lower AT authority to 10%, long ride, accept trims. Then go into the trim table and find all the negative values, add 5 (so if it's commanding -16, change it to -11). Set authority to 5% plus and minus, enjoy your bike.

By gear and 250 RPM intervals are very much worth doing, and ONLY the PC-V gives this ability.

@warp9.9 pointed out recently that the Bosche 4.2 and 4.9 consumer grade widebands tend to be off, and hes absolutely correct. The further from 14.5:1 afr the reading is, the more the variance. In every test I can find, they are wrong in the safe direction though, meaning, the o2 sensor may give you a reading of 13:1, but in reality it could be anywhere from 12.1:1-12.9:1. Most consumer grade sensor's Ive seen testing on (not the garbage one showing the LC-1 ad dead accurate), show Bosche based sensors tend to run between 0.1 and 1 full point off, always to the "reading leaner than reality" direction.

In all honestly, the AT feature with some thoughtful care, is so accurate I only use the datalogging to check its work rather than write my own tables now.