raymond braswell
Turbocharged
Bypass on my D&D's. I also fertilize my lawn on 'enviromental day' Jamie. Figure with global warming I'll be able to ride longer in the winter. Just joking....
TOR pipes are an excellent compromise. Besides the fact that they look like and fit like the original pipes, they produce a deeper, throatier and certainly more authoritative sound, without being LOUD at all. And they are a no-brainer tune-wise. Jamie
The TOR's also produce more HP - take of the cat box and you get even more.
Paul Hyland
Turbocharged
OK
I have a battle between the TOR's and the D&D's. They both increse HP, so Do I want to keep the 3 pipes with the TOR or go with 2 pipes with D&D's. I guess it up to how they sound. Anyone know were I can hear a sound bit of these pipe's and A link to the best place to get TRO's I have one for the D&D's
I have a battle between the TOR's and the D&D's. They both increse HP, so Do I want to keep the 3 pipes with the TOR or go with 2 pipes with D&D's. I guess it up to how they sound. Anyone know were I can hear a sound bit of these pipe's and A link to the best place to get TRO's I have one for the D&D's
raymond braswell
Turbocharged
Paul, I like the two pipe look. I think the D&D's are a little throatier. The cat box is a waste of metal, cannot figure out how it really does any good. But I would really recommend finding a way to hear it. I still wish I had explored louder pipes before I went to the D&D's. I installed mine myself, fairly easy. And then took it in to get tuned.
Paul Hyland
Turbocharged
Just maybe
I am leaning tords the D&D's if not for the reason It will eliminate the cat box. If I go with TOR I have to get a by-pass. Which after adding the two up the by-pass and TOR's the price will give me a heart attack in which I will net a by-pass.
I am leaning tords the D&D's if not for the reason It will eliminate the cat box. If I go with TOR I have to get a by-pass. Which after adding the two up the by-pass and TOR's the price will give me a heart attack in which I will net a by-pass.
It's really a matter of preference. I like the 3 mufflers. It's one of the things that makes the Rocket distinctive. The TOR's with cat bypass sounds pretty gnarly.
paul
Just drop every thing from the header back and try a cherry bomb on the end.I did.Really hard to make these things sound good.I tried 8 different set ups and wound up with the one u see in my picts.Its an empty muffler from my old hooker set from my last V twin.I like the sound of the sardens the best.I took a lot of weight off to. Just can,t see the prices for some of this stuff.I priced break pads the other day at my dealer.When he told me the price I asked if gold grabs better.I know I don't get out enough. lol Later
Just drop every thing from the header back and try a cherry bomb on the end.I did.Really hard to make these things sound good.I tried 8 different set ups and wound up with the one u see in my picts.Its an empty muffler from my old hooker set from my last V twin.I like the sound of the sardens the best.I took a lot of weight off to. Just can,t see the prices for some of this stuff.I priced break pads the other day at my dealer.When he told me the price I asked if gold grabs better.I know I don't get out enough. lol Later
HellFire
Legend
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 4,518
One of the 1st things I did to the new R3 Base model was to replace the exhaust and air filter. I looked at everything! Finally deciding on the D&D's due to price, sound clips on utube and the fact that they eliminated 27lbs of weight. I'm VERY happy with the sound, the quality of the chrome and their customer service. I do kind of miss the look of the tripple pipes, but they certainly have a nice unique look of their own. I'm happy with my choice and recomend D&D. From all my research I found that most are in agreement that the most HP gains for the buck is three things, exhaust, K&N filter and a tuneboy. So far I have two of the three and the difference is already noticable. I'm dying to get rid of the Triumph tune for aftermarket exhaust w/o cat. I'm told that it richens the mixture by keeping the secondary butterflies closed even more. But if you go with D&D's, enrichment of the mixture by some means (Triumph tune or Tuneboy / PCIII) is needed ASAP so that the chrome does not discolor, especially during break in. I'm learning all I can about the Tuneboy and plan to go that route this spring. I'll have it dynoed with just those three upgrades and post the results
A good tip if someone decides to go with D&D's is that with all the stuff removed from under and left side of the bike, the starter looks funny hanging there all by itself since the engine is black and the starter is bare aluminum. That was easily fixed by just spray painting the starter black. With a coat of black paint it practically disappears.
Utube has a clip of a guy riding in a circle with D&D's and a few others if you want to hear 'em.
A good tip if someone decides to go with D&D's is that with all the stuff removed from under and left side of the bike, the starter looks funny hanging there all by itself since the engine is black and the starter is bare aluminum. That was easily fixed by just spray painting the starter black. With a coat of black paint it practically disappears.
Utube has a clip of a guy riding in a circle with D&D's and a few others if you want to hear 'em.
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rcr#29
.020 Over
pipes
Heres my take on it..
I first bought the D&D's, reasons being: Much cheaper than the TOR's, No advantage (noise or performance) to going to the TOR's unless you also purchase the Cat eliminator pipe and thats a lot of additional money, D&D's are much cheaper than Jardines, Mad Dogs etc.
The D&D's and any other after market pipe shows great advantages on their dynos, but please dont believe the hype... You will be lucky to pick up 5-7 HP just going to their pipes even though they show 15-20 hp gains.. Not going to happen so dont blame the dyno guy you go to if it doesnt happen.. if it does hes probably lying to you with the dyno setup and trying to get you to spend more money on Power Commander, K&N etc..
There are a couple of things you will get with the D&D pipes:
1) You eliminate the CAT without the additional expense of the Cat bypass pipe.
2) Much louder than stock.
3) Probably a small increase in HP/torque.
Note: If you want the max HP you will need to do the following..
1) D&D's, Jardines, TOR's, or some other after market pipes, doesnt matter that much.. main thing is to get rid of the CAT box.. and restricted stock mufflers.
2) Remove all air filter plumbing and put the 3 K&N's on the Intakes, I would not use the Foam filters due to catching fire issues.. just putting a K&N under the seat or tank doesnt do anything but give you a filter that is warranteed to 100,000 miles and is cleanable over replacing the stock one every 10,000 miles..
3) Remove secondaries from throttle bodies.. big job.. and there are issues with this also with engine light staying on, warrantee etc...
4) You will need to get Tuneboy or Power Commander to tune it.
From what i have read and experienced, I think the main gains are with Tuneboy and/or Power Commander because they will allow opening up of the secondaries (supposedly 100%, but users say they are still not open 100% thats why they remove them) so until you remove the secondairies the computer and throttle bodies will restrict how far open they will go and how much air can flow.
I have tried the D&D's with the promise of picking up 10-15 hp.. didnt happen...
I have tried the K&N under tank and seat with no noticable gain in hp or torque...
I tried the TOR's and found not much different in sound from stock due to the CAT...
I bought the CAT eliminator pipe, now it sounded good, still not much gain in hp/torgue.. advantage is if you get tired of the noise you can put one or two stock pipes back on and quiet it down til your ready to rock and roll again..
I now have the Jardinees that everyone promised i would get 145-150 hp.. i have the same HP and torque as I had with the D&D's.. (around 138hp, 149 tq. with tuneboy) They were also close to $1000. and the D&D's i think were around $450..but i like the look and sound better than the others..
So in closing.. dont expect too much in the way of HP gains,
The D&D is the cheapest way to go to get some noise, and eliminate weight...
Dont believe all the hype and HP figures being thrown around by the pipe and K&N companies.. from my experiences and a lot of HONEST dyno runs, you most likely wont be seeing 140+ hp without removing the secondaries and tuneboy/pc.
Disclaimer: Different elevations, temp, settings and different dynos and operators will all have an effect on the dyno results.
Unless you run the same bike on the same day on the same dyno, with the same dyno setup, and have an honest operator.. you can expect unreliable results. The dyno is a tuning tool, so dont be concerned with the total number, if you pick up 5-10hp from when you started tuning on it you accomplished what you were trying to do... which was get it tuned the the max performance. Dont be a victim of DYNO DENIAL!!!
I'm sure lots of you experts will dispute what i have said but i have been doing this for over 30 years and I'm just speaking the truth as i have found it so the regular guys aren't sucked into believing the rediculous claims made by the the pipe and air filter companies.. its all marketing hype..
Remember Slick 50, and all the oil additives that promise "you can run your car without oil in 100 degree heat"... they can no longer say that cause it was of course found to be untrue.. they were eventually sued and forced to be taken off the market or changed their advertising and labels on the bottles.. most went out of business..
another example.. I went to a Porsche Conference and someone asked if "Putting in a K&N filter would pick up the 15-20hp gaines K&N was claiming"? The Porsche rep said this.. "If we could pick up 15-20hp by just putting in a K&N filter dont you think we would do that!!!"
Be smart be realistic and good luck..
Heres my take on it..
I first bought the D&D's, reasons being: Much cheaper than the TOR's, No advantage (noise or performance) to going to the TOR's unless you also purchase the Cat eliminator pipe and thats a lot of additional money, D&D's are much cheaper than Jardines, Mad Dogs etc.
The D&D's and any other after market pipe shows great advantages on their dynos, but please dont believe the hype... You will be lucky to pick up 5-7 HP just going to their pipes even though they show 15-20 hp gains.. Not going to happen so dont blame the dyno guy you go to if it doesnt happen.. if it does hes probably lying to you with the dyno setup and trying to get you to spend more money on Power Commander, K&N etc..
There are a couple of things you will get with the D&D pipes:
1) You eliminate the CAT without the additional expense of the Cat bypass pipe.
2) Much louder than stock.
3) Probably a small increase in HP/torque.
Note: If you want the max HP you will need to do the following..
1) D&D's, Jardines, TOR's, or some other after market pipes, doesnt matter that much.. main thing is to get rid of the CAT box.. and restricted stock mufflers.
2) Remove all air filter plumbing and put the 3 K&N's on the Intakes, I would not use the Foam filters due to catching fire issues.. just putting a K&N under the seat or tank doesnt do anything but give you a filter that is warranteed to 100,000 miles and is cleanable over replacing the stock one every 10,000 miles..
3) Remove secondaries from throttle bodies.. big job.. and there are issues with this also with engine light staying on, warrantee etc...
4) You will need to get Tuneboy or Power Commander to tune it.
From what i have read and experienced, I think the main gains are with Tuneboy and/or Power Commander because they will allow opening up of the secondaries (supposedly 100%, but users say they are still not open 100% thats why they remove them) so until you remove the secondairies the computer and throttle bodies will restrict how far open they will go and how much air can flow.
I have tried the D&D's with the promise of picking up 10-15 hp.. didnt happen...
I have tried the K&N under tank and seat with no noticable gain in hp or torque...
I tried the TOR's and found not much different in sound from stock due to the CAT...
I bought the CAT eliminator pipe, now it sounded good, still not much gain in hp/torgue.. advantage is if you get tired of the noise you can put one or two stock pipes back on and quiet it down til your ready to rock and roll again..
I now have the Jardinees that everyone promised i would get 145-150 hp.. i have the same HP and torque as I had with the D&D's.. (around 138hp, 149 tq. with tuneboy) They were also close to $1000. and the D&D's i think were around $450..but i like the look and sound better than the others..
So in closing.. dont expect too much in the way of HP gains,
The D&D is the cheapest way to go to get some noise, and eliminate weight...
Dont believe all the hype and HP figures being thrown around by the pipe and K&N companies.. from my experiences and a lot of HONEST dyno runs, you most likely wont be seeing 140+ hp without removing the secondaries and tuneboy/pc.
Disclaimer: Different elevations, temp, settings and different dynos and operators will all have an effect on the dyno results.
Unless you run the same bike on the same day on the same dyno, with the same dyno setup, and have an honest operator.. you can expect unreliable results. The dyno is a tuning tool, so dont be concerned with the total number, if you pick up 5-10hp from when you started tuning on it you accomplished what you were trying to do... which was get it tuned the the max performance. Dont be a victim of DYNO DENIAL!!!
I'm sure lots of you experts will dispute what i have said but i have been doing this for over 30 years and I'm just speaking the truth as i have found it so the regular guys aren't sucked into believing the rediculous claims made by the the pipe and air filter companies.. its all marketing hype..
Remember Slick 50, and all the oil additives that promise "you can run your car without oil in 100 degree heat"... they can no longer say that cause it was of course found to be untrue.. they were eventually sued and forced to be taken off the market or changed their advertising and labels on the bottles.. most went out of business..
another example.. I went to a Porsche Conference and someone asked if "Putting in a K&N filter would pick up the 15-20hp gaines K&N was claiming"? The Porsche rep said this.. "If we could pick up 15-20hp by just putting in a K&N filter dont you think we would do that!!!"
Be smart be realistic and good luck..
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Pig9r
Living Legend
Removing the secondaries will not cause a check engine light.
Power commander strictly adjusts fueling. Tuneboy allows you to adjust the secondaries, fueling, timing, rev limiter, correct speedo etc. The secondaries are only part of the power restrictions from Triumph, the timing is retarded in the first three gears also.
Did you dyno it? Did you tune it for your set up? You can't expect to slap some stuff on the bike and it will go faster. It has to be tuned to take advantage of the changes that you made.
With a cat bypass, Maddog pipes, triple K&Ns, and tuneboy I picked up 25+ hp and torque. And I have the dyno charts to prove it.
