i really want to go with tuneboy but........

Discussion in 'Rocket Performance' started by Brian K, Jul 2, 2006.

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  1. Brian K

    Brian K.020 Over

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    i have been reading up on this and it seems that it is is still in devolopmental stage as far as being able to get a good working tune for a bike with jardines. i am thinking i would pretty much have to come up with my own tune? also i would put in a tune and bring it to a shop for a dyno run but unless the shop was familiar with the tuneboy and had the software they really couldn't make on the fly adjustments? i would also need to invest in a laptop to be able to use the tuneboy since my pc is out of reach of my bike. i also read a few posts about the ecu unlearning the tune that i would load into it. has that been fixed or can that still happen? i know there are a ton of posts on the tuneboy setup but i have been reading all night and these are the ?s i still have. am i way off on this? any help is appreciated.
     
  2. Pig9r

    Pig9rLiving Legend

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    Brian it sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of the current status of Tuneboy for Rocket owners. I think there is a solution to the "unlearning" however we haven't had a chance to test it quite yet. There is a real need for some good dyno tunes. Tuneboy does have a way to emulate a powercommand for dyno purposes however you need find a dynojet shop willing to do that.

    I think you could get somewhat of a workable tune for the Jardine set up. However the PCIII is the only tried and true setup with canned tunes that are plug and play for Jardines. Tomo is running a PCIII with a modified 20054 tune for ignition timing, speedo correction and what not. Hopefully more Rocket owners will be able to get on a dyno and share some tunes.
     
  3. Toystoretom

    ToystoretomLiving Legend

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    As far as the eprom "relearning" that is just a theory so far... We like to throw ideas out there for discussion... thats how we learn and figure stuff out.

    The Tuneboy... right now... is probably for those who like to experiment and fiddle with stuff :D Who knows? You could be a pioneer in this area!! It does take some time. I am sure... that sooner or later we will have some legit tunes to trade, that's why we have started a sub forum to that effect.

    You may be correct though... if you go to a dyno you will probably have to be familiar enough with the TuneBoy to do your own mapping, I am not sure the DynoJet guys will be real helpful. You can lay over DynoJet tunes onto the TuneBoy but we haven't tried that yet.
     
  4. Pig9r

    Pig9rLiving Legend

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    Actually I did try it one afternoon right after Wayne released the version of TuneEdit that was supposed to be able to import PCIII maps into the fuel trim maps . The bike ran like pounded dog ****. I was lucky to get it back in the driveway and into the garage under its own power.
     
  5. tuneboy

    tuneboyStandard Bore

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    Hi.
    Have you tried the PCIII overlay with the latest TuneEdit.exe
    The first release of the program for the Rocket did not load the PCIII maps correctly, this is fixed now.
    The ECU cannot change the map to unlearn anything, the ECU does have an adaption that is done while in closed loop.
    I know that Triumph are having problems with some Rockets, the problem seems to be that the ECU will adapt incorrectly because of a misfire while in closed loop. This problem happens because the middle cylinder map is a little on the lean side.
    I did some dyno testing last week on a Rocket with 3 into 3. This was interesting because it showed that the pop was mainly coming from the middle cylinder. This was easily fixed.
    A simple fix for this learning is to change the A/F map so the ECU does not go into closed loop, this means it never adapts (Just like the PCIII with the O2 eliminator fitted).
    I have a question about the PCIII map for the Jardine exhaust.
    What tune was in the Triumph ECU when they did the mapping.
    Did the bike still have the secondary throttle plates fitted.
    These are important because the PCIII trims the injector pulse that the Triumph ECU produces. This means you will get a different result depending on the map loaded into the Triumph ECU.
    If the PCIII trim map was created on top of tune 20054 you will get a vastly different result if you put the PCIII on a bike that has 20050 loaded into the ECU.
    Another issue is the secondary throttle plates.
    If the PCIII map was created on top of 20050 and was mapped in fourth gear, the bike will run very rich in first gear when the secondary throttle is partly closed.
    If I could find someone in Sydney with the Jardine pipes I would love to make a custom map to show what can be done, I just cannot find anyone with them.
    I hope you can see that my comments above relevant.
    Some people thing that adding a PCIII means you don't care what map is loaded into the ECU, this is not correct.
    The PCIII sits between the ECU and the injectors.
    Say you had a PCIII fitted with 10% trim over the entire map.
    When the Rocket ECU turns the injector on for 5 milliseconds it is in fact sending a 5ms pulse to the PCIII. the PCIII then sends a 5.5ms pulse to the injector to give the 10% extra fuel.
    As you can see the pulse sent to the injector is still based on the pulse generated by the factory ECU.
    I hope this helps explain some if the issues.

    Thanks
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K.020 Over

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    o.k. so what is the advantage of getting the tuneboy and then loading the pc3 map onto it?the tuneboy really intrigues me but still seems to be rough around the edges. i could be wrong but i think if i get the tuneboy i can't just plug in a decent tune for my jardines ..........it will be more like alot of devolopment and trial and error. am i wrong because like the post says i would prefer the tuneboy but.........
     
  7. Pig9r

    Pig9rLiving Legend

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    Hi Tuneboy (Wayne I assume),

    The overlay I did was with the updated version of TuneEdit. I think the problem was I did not have the correct base tune.

    With Tom's bike he knew he had the 20054 stock tune with the PCIII so we took the stock 20054 tune and made ignition and speedo correction changes and loaded it. Tom had very impressive performance results.

    I have tried lowering a/f ratios in the 14.57 areas and have found idle gets weak, is there a way to counter that?

    I have been running the smoothdecel2 tune that is posted in the Tuneboy Modified Tunes thread in the Trading Tunes forum. I have several hundred miles on it and haven't experienced any more 'relearning'. Popping on decel isn't gone but it is minimal. I may try richening the middle cylinder a little and see if that helps even more.

    Thanks for stopping by, we are always experimenting and learning about your product so any help would be very much appreciated.
     
  8. Pig9r

    Pig9rLiving Legend

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    Brian K-

    There is no canned tune for Jardines right now however you could always get a dyno tune for your set up or use one of the modified tunes here to get you in the ball park. One of the initial advantages to Tuneboy, performance wise, is that you can change the ignition mapping. Simply by coping the 3rd through 5th ignition maps to 1st and 2nd gear you can get a very noticeable power increase. That is what Tom experienced. You can also tell the ECU to keep the secondaries open all of the time.

    I am going to have some time off of work shortly and I am going to make it a priority to get some dyno time somewhere.
     
  9. Toystoretom

    ToystoretomLiving Legend

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    Hi Wayne!!!

    I don't have any idea what map they used at DynoJet to develop the Jardine PCIII map, but if I had to guess I would say it was the stock 20050, and I say that because they do not tell the customer to load in 20054 before using the PCIII on the Jardine setup.

    You are right... the Triumph tune you use has an effect on the PC III. I have had my Rocket for a long time, and one of the very earliest mods was to remove the secondary throttle plates (this is way before any of you clowns showed up on the scene :D). I went from a 20048 (they very old stock tune) to a 20054 and noticed a difference, I also have Mad Doggies, and the cat bypass (and the PC III).

    With the help of Pig9r I loaded the TuneBoy into my bike and did a few things like turn off the secondary throttle plates (even though I don't have them:eek:), corrected the speedo error and played a little bit with the timing and it may be just my imagination but I think my bike actually runs better... and I mean runability wise. I haven't been able to mess with it too much because of the pile of junk computer I was using has decided to have a nervous breakdown... but I plan on getting some things done soon...

    We had also noticed that the middle cylinder's map was off from the other two (Hey Hondax... remember we talked about that over our first board meeting:D). I keep having problems reading those maps... I work for Nissan and they lay things out differently and if I don't pay close attention I get turned upsidedown...

    Anyway... we would like to see you succeed with this... if there is anything we can do here to help don't hestitate to ask... as you can see this site supports dat files so if you come up with some good stuff send them to Pig9r (Brian) and we will make sure they get out there...

    Tomo
     
  10. dougl

    douglLiving Legend

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    Pciii

    I talked to Manny at DynoJet and he said all of their Rocket tunes were based on a "bone stock" R3 off the showroom floor. He didn't know the actual tune. If it is completely stock, the tune should be 20050 and the secondaries should have been in.

    The Tuneboy is worth having just to open the secondaries and correct the speedo. You can also increase the rev and speed limits if you dare. And you can play around with it and it costs nothing. You can always reload your original tune. With TOR's/cat bypass, I think the Staintune tune works well except for popping on decel. :)
     
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