fuel management controler questions

[knbaudio]

hey guys i'm looking to do some things to my rocket now and comparing power commanders. i've got a local guy making my cat bypass and still looking at ideas for exhaust, plus waiting on a company coming up with something i asked for. but has anyone use this ecm tune commander at all ( Wiseco Fuel Controller ) and is it any good. just looking at all options and which way to go thanks.

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

I recently went to Dobeck Performance in Belgrade, MT and had their NEW gen 4 product installed. It is called the AFR Plus. Very nice product. They gave me a tour of the facility and showed me all the "brand" name controllers they make. They make just about every name I have heard of and more that I haven't. I believe Wiseco was one of them. It is one of his older products. I believe Mr. Dobeck was the originator of the Power Commander. He is no longer associated with PC. The latest from Dobeck Performance is the AFR Plus. It controls the air/fuel mixture across the board. You can control where to change it when ever you want it or need it be adjusted. It uses a wideband O2 sensor and a small control module with an instant read out gauge on your dash. All of the adjustments are right there in front of you on the gauge. Just pull over for 10 seconds or so, adjust and ride off.

 

[knbaudio]

Oh ok so what kind of price on that and what are you getting for power and mileage. Just looking at all the options and finding out from the masses on what works.

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

I haven't ridden the bike enough to know. Only about 500 miles. The butt dyno says wow. Gas tank hasn't really had a good opportunity because I can't resist the feel of the new power. But so far I see about 2 mpg less.

 

[barbagris]

Cant comment on the Dobeck stuff. I know there are several folk using it.

But from first hand experience - a Dynojet Power Commander 5 with Autotune loaded with Hansos AFR table values is simply the dog's whotsits. Had it on about a year now.

No pissing about - no need to monitor anything. Just fit and pretty much forget. Any changes you make will be dealt with without you having to lift a finger.

And DON'T LET YOUR STORE SELL YOU A POWER COMMANDER 3.

tbh buying the older Dobeck stuff is a bit like buying a PC3 imo.

my 0.02.

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

Barbagris,
What does your pre and post install dyno report look like ? I am searching for the best upgrade for my Rocket.

At the moment my AFR Plus was free to me for testing it. I have not done a post install dyno run yet as we are working out the fine tuning and any possible bugs (not that there are really any bugs yet).

The thing I like about the AFR Plus is I can adjust it whenever wherever I want or not. It too can be "set it and forget it". Having the ability to make the changes right here right now is very convenient. No computer or dyno needed. This is the next generation product simplified, not old stuff. Keep in mind, Mr. Dobeck invented the Power Commander. From what I am told the Power Commander V with AT is pre set to bring the AFR as close as possible to maintain a ratio of 13.3/1 at all times. That isn't the best AFR for every situation. With AFR Plus I can set 3 different zones with different AFR settings. The unit can also be set to a switch point of where the zone changes occur. The throttle position and load requirements determine where the switch point settings kicks in. You can set them where you want them. I like that. I can change all of these settings to anything I want with just a touch of a button on the AFR read out gauge the unit comes with. The gauge then tells me what zone I'm in and what the current AFR is. I like all this even more.

Dobeck Performance has set the price point for the AFR Plus at $325. They offer many types of discounts and can get the price down to $250 or less with those discounts.

 

[barbagris]

Barbagris,
What does your pre and post install dyno report look like ?

The reason I went for the Autotune is simply there are no dynos near me. And I'm after smooth delivery and lower consumption rather than POWER. If I wanted POWER - I'd have called Bob Carpenter.

The thing I like about the AFR Plus is I can adjust it whenever wherever I want or not. It too can be "set it and forget it". Having the ability to make the changes right here right now is very convenient. No computer or dyno needed. This is the next generation product simplified, not old stuff. Keep in mind, Mr. Dobeck invented the Power Commander.

I've seen the new AFR Dobeck ad's - but like I said - no idea how it is in action. I happen to be resistant to having things on bikes that can be viewed and changed on the fly - it tends to distract. I'd rather LOG what happens and analyse it - maybe alter it later.

From what I am told the Power Commander V with AT is pre set to bring the AFR as close as possible to maintain a ratio of 13.3/1 at all times. That isn't the best AFR for every situation. With AFR Plus I can set 3 different zones with different AFR settings. The unit can also be set to a switch point of where the zone changes occur. The throttle position and load requirements determine where the switch point settings kicks in. You can set them where you want them. I like that. I can change all of these settings to anything I want with just a touch of a button on the AFR read out gauge the unit comes with. The gauge then tells me what zone I'm in and what the current AFR is. I like all this even more.

Dobeck Performance has set the price point for the AFR Plus at $325. They offer many types of discounts and can get the price down to $250 or less with those discounts.

I don't know who told you that about the PCV AFR values. But it's bollocks. True, some of the AFR tables that Dynojet supply are set silly rich - but you can change them. Hanso's set of tables are excellent. Nowhere near as rich.

Mine is set so I have a different set of AFR tables for each gear. I have 14.5 in some of the cells. You set target AFR's for variations of RPM and TPS. Increments of every change of 250rpm and about 10 or so TPS positions. The advantage of this is that if you find you have one spot that's either oddly rich or weak (and many engines have one or more of these odd spots) - you can change that one.

It took me a while to take a dive inside the ECU mapping - but once understood Thanks to Tom of TuneECU - it gives far more control.

I love carb's (and would in many respects prefer to run on carb's) but even I have to admit that ECU fuel tables give far more control. And I just don't see the point of applying carb tuning mentality to EFI.

The load algorithm in DoBeck's gear is his "secret". I have a certain level of distrust (borne of having been a professional technical smoke screen maker) of secrets. I don't say it's bad or wrong - I just don't have the details. And I fully respect Mr Dobecks right to keep his secret - well secret.

Price points only matter if the products are the same - imo.

I've just changed some of the AFR values in the lower gears as per Hansos V2 values. Left top as a slightly leaner cruising gear. I deliberately use the secondary butterflies to smooth out delivery in the lower gears too.

A feature (that I don't use) on the PCV is that you can store two sets of maps - switch-able on the fly. Using map/gear that's 10 maps. So you can have a normal running set of maps - using Autotune. And a monster richer one for mad 5 minutes.

Chris

 

[STRIPES]

Skip is a good authority on the Dobeck. He has taken on another job and must be working his butt off otherwise I'm sure he would have jumped in by now. I have one still in the box that I am going to put on the Roadster. I've been wondering if a Dobeck will be applicable with a super charger on my other bike. Guess I need to give them a call.

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

I took the Rocket out for a 100 mile ride yesterday while the wife worked. I decided to fill up,ride sane, then fill up again. So I did, (but got a little spirited a few times. A little is an understatement.) Here is what I found. The increased power feels good. The engine seams to run smoother. Heat on the right leg is gone (mostly). Mileage was back to average at 37.6 mpg.

 

[knbaudio]

Ok great reading the info and discussion, but has helped with which way to go. I'd like a plug and play as I don't have anything around here for Dubois or speed shops that I know of. My triumph dealer is 2hr away and not really wanting to pay there prices. I will start with the cat bypass pipe, then something for a twin mufflers, a k&n filter at some point. I can't bite the bullet and just buy everything at once. Just looking for aggressive sound, open the bike up, and give it just a little more. So I'm looking at different sites and ebay for best prices on everything. Well let me know guys what good. Thanks