Kenneth67

Sarcastic Greasy Toilet Paper
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
50
Location
London UK
Ride
09 Rocket III (not the Touring or Classic)
OK guys especially @Claviger and @Penner this is what we did, bit unorthodox but it worked.

Couldn't spend too much time today on bike as I would be moving a bed in there soon and had weeds to pull in garden.

We connected Tune ECU started bike, I noticed the "throttle" voltage was 0.64, and it was doing its low idle as normal around 650rpm (set for 850rpm in ECU), we loosened TPS nut and forced the TPS around (this was difficult as it was jumping around a bit but effectively did it by shouting at each other while one person watched the screen when it got close we nipped it up was then set at 0.61V and the idle was at 850rpm or thereabouts.

Stopping and restarting the bike and it started like it should jumped into life instantly, then settled to set idle no issues. Did this a few times and it seemed good, the manifold pressures were also lower at around 620 now so it felt right, revved clean from this too and resettles nicely.

I then thought aha I'll do a TPS and ISM reset and what do you know? the TPS was 0.61V and the ISM was 0.73, without any adjustment.

Then the AT sensor started getting hot sitting in the garage so we packed it in and Paul went riding, I went back to my gardening chores:(. There was one bright side to the gardening chores though I found an old electric leaf blower in the shed and I'm going to relocate it to the garage to create airflow on the bikes:thumbsup::thumbsup: when working as the AT sensor got close to 50C yesterday and that also messes things up when trying to tune.

Thanks again for everyone's input into this, thought I was losing the plot at one stage, I understand Tune ECU (mostly) and know how EFI works but nothing was playing the game.

Fair play to you for sorting the problem out. I'd say you guys were close to tearing your hair out!

At the risk of being cynical - is the problem really fixed, or just worked around (for now at least)?

My worry is, since you had the problem with the original throttle body assy inc TPS, and changed that assy out inc TPS, and the problem remained... that the issue is elsewhere?
Seems strange that not 1 but 2 TBs have the same issue when TPS & ISCV are set as per the manual.

When the engine is not running, what was the previous, and what is the current, primary TPS volts?
 

Claviger

Aspiring Student
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
6,419
Location
Olympia Washington
Ride
'14 R3R, '02 Daytona 955i
I have a feeling the problem comes at how it’s being set.

I know people don’t watch educational YouTube movies or anything, but in the How to set your TPS video I showed how it’s done both wrong and right.

With you ignition on, bike not running, the TPS voltage should be more than 0.60, it should be around 0.66-0.68. The 0.60 value is when the stepper is moved to the most closed position, not the position it is set to with ignition in the ON position.
 

sleeves

Nitrous
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
1,106
Location
Backblocks, Waikato, New Zealand
Ride
05 R3 Std
Fair play to you for sorting the problem out. I'd say you guys were close to tearing your hair out!

At the risk of being cynical - is the problem really fixed, or just worked around (for now at least)?

My worry is, since you had the problem with the original throttle body assy inc TPS, and changed that assy out inc TPS, and the problem remained... that the issue is elsewhere?
Seems strange that not 1 but 2 TBs have the same issue when TPS & ISCV are set as per the manual.

When the engine is not running, what was the previous, and what is the current, primary TPS volts?

As @Claviger says above, its simply the settings. The spec'ed settings may be good on a brand new bike but they are now 12/13 years old, things are wearing tolerances are increasing. It was a matter of not obsessing over the 0.60/0.72 settings but using those as a guideline then tweaking the settings that work for the particular bike.

I don't consider this a work around or a cheat but a solid fix. It was a lot of time and head scratching but thats the way you learn (and I like tinkering on bikes in the garage, its my happy place).

As a similar experience many years ago I decided the carbs on my old Bonneville (I have owned for 30 years now) needed a rebuild, not for any reason just decided to. Stripped, cleaned fitted new gaskets, needles and main-jets (exactly the same spec as was already in carb). Bike ran like rubbish couldn't tune it. Refitted old needles and jets, ran like a dream, reason everything was worn at the same rate as the needles and jets so it all worked as "set". Still the same today and works, if I wanted the benefit of the needles and jets would have needed to re-sleeve, new throttle slides etc but not needed.
 

Kenneth67

Sarcastic Greasy Toilet Paper
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
50
Location
London UK
Ride
09 Rocket III (not the Touring or Classic)
I have a feeling the problem comes at how it’s being set.

I know people don’t watch educational YouTube movies or anything, but in the How to set your TPS video I showed how it’s done both wrong and right.

With you ignition on, bike not running, the TPS voltage should be more than 0.60, it should be around 0.66-0.68. The 0.60 value is when the stepper is moved to the most closed position, not the position it is set to with ignition in the ON position.

Dude I watched your vid start to end!
Wrong way = open TuneECU, moving TPS to get 0.60v when reading it under Throttle in Sensors list
Right way = open TuneECU, double click Adjust ISCV and then move it to get 0.60v, double click again and adjust nut (if required) on ISM to get 0.72v

I'm pretty sure sleeves did it the right way all along?
His fix was to move the TPS while running the engine and nail it down when the engine purred at setpoint idle speed... not going into TuneECU and Adjust ISCV and say ah fcuk it that'll do at 0.61 and 0.70v :D



As @Claviger says above, its simply the settings. The spec'ed settings may be good on a brand new bike but they are now 12/13 years old, things are wearing tolerances are increasing. It was a matter of not obsessing over the 0.60/0.72 settings but using those as a guideline then tweaking the settings that work for the particular bike.

I don't consider this a work around or a cheat but a solid fix. It was a lot of time and head scratching but thats the way you learn (and I like tinkering on bikes in the garage, its my happy place).

As a similar experience many years ago I decided the carbs on my old Bonneville (I have owned for 30 years now) needed a rebuild, not for any reason just decided to. Stripped, cleaned fitted new gaskets, needles and main-jets (exactly the same spec as was already in carb). Bike ran like rubbish couldn't tune it. Refitted old needles and jets, ran like a dream, reason everything was worn at the same rate as the needles and jets so it all worked as "set". Still the same today and works, if I wanted the benefit of the needles and jets would have needed to re-sleeve, new throttle slides etc but not needed.

Well I really hope you're right man and it doesn't come back to haunt you. Easy come easy go!
Wonder why did it "go" suddenly in the first place? Just wore away that quick? Funny how the other throttle body was equally as worn in.

Can I ask does your throttle % go from 0 to 100% in TuneECU's readout now? Or what's it max out at?
 

Claviger

Aspiring Student
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
6,419
Location
Olympia Washington
Ride
'14 R3R, '02 Daytona 955i
The adjustment while running I’ve seen at least one other person post on the forum they had to do, unfortunately I can’t recall where I saw it to see what the circumstances were that required it.

This whole thing would be so much easier if ECUs just had a calibrate TPS function so leave throttle closed map value as minimum, open throttle fully and save value as 100%. Similar to how PC-V does it.
 

sleeves

Nitrous
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
1,106
Location
Backblocks, Waikato, New Zealand
Ride
05 R3 Std
Dude I watched your vid start to end!
Wrong way = open TuneECU, moving TPS to get 0.60v when reading it under Throttle in Sensors list
Right way = open TuneECU, double click Adjust ISCV and then move it to get 0.60v, double click again and adjust nut (if required) on ISM to get 0.72v

I'm pretty sure sleeves did it the right way all along?
His fix was to move the TPS while running the engine and nail it down when the engine purred at setpoint idle speed... not going into TuneECU and Adjust ISCV and say ah fcuk it that'll do at 0.61 and 0.70v :D





Well I really hope you're right man and it doesn't come back to haunt you. Easy come easy go!
Wonder why did it "go" suddenly in the first place? Just wore away that quick? Funny how the other throttle body was equally as worn in.

Can I ask does your throttle % go from 0 to 100% in TuneECU's readout now? Or what's it max out at?

You may ask at ALL times through this debacle the TPS on both the Tune ECU and PCV ran 0 to 100%.

The initial failure encountered was an engine stutter at around 2000rpm. And while i hate to admit it (but have no shame) from this point I ballsed it up. We also had an ECU coil fault.

The engine the other throttle body came off i suspect has less than 10K kms on it.

What we learnt is if tou obsess ovwr the 0.6/0.72 settings you may never be able to fix the issue.

May have posted this earlier but recently when a ling way from home my original TPS started hanging up and holding revs, a comnon issue on older TPS. I thought about it ans using my tablet and cable i always carry when on holiday set the TPS to 0.62 and ism to 0.74. Worked and is still on. i have a brand new spare for it but no need

As @Claviger says 0.61/0.70 "ah "f" it" it works is the oddly correct attitude.
 

R-III-R Turbo

Mine is the biggest :)
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,653
Location
Ireland
Ride
2.5L Stroker Rocket III, 04 Hayabusa
Just to chime in here with a little bit of additional info, which if anything backs up the thing about not having to fret over exactly 0.60 / 0.72v

I found Triumph's software reads 0.02v off what Tune ECU and Tuneboy read wrt TPS voltages (at the same time)

e.g. Triumph read 0.58v / 0.70v when Tune ECU and Tuneboy both read 0.60v / 0.72v.
Another difference is that Triumph's software takes whatever volts your TPS is set to then adds 0.12v to it for the ISCV bit. Whereas TE & TB just say 0.60V and 0.72V, The End.

Warning: thinking out loud alert
 
Last edited:

sleeves

Nitrous
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
1,106
Location
Backblocks, Waikato, New Zealand
Ride
05 R3 Std
Just to chime in here with a little bit of additional info, which if anything backs up the thing about not having to fret over exactly 0.60 / 0.72v

I found Triumph's software reads 0.02v off what Tune ECU and Tuneboy read wrt TPS voltages.

e.g. Triumph read 0.58v / 0.70v when Tune ECU and Tuneboy both read 0.60v / 0.72v.
Another difference is that Triumph's software takes whatever volts your TPS is set to then adds 0.12v to it for the ISCV bit.

Warning: thinking out loud alert

Thanks and chime away

This was exactly my suspicion, as I mentioned above, when on holiday my TPS (from 2005) started to give the usual fault signs, I jaced the voltage higher, add 0.12 to the value for the ISM and its still working like new. My reasoning was that its just a rotary encoder and has worn at the point that its 0.60vdc so you move it to 0.62V that area wil be good, seems to have saved it.

As I have a brand new spare sitting round, I am prepared to test this to the death on my bike.

My Bryant's bike is now fine also.
 

Claviger

Aspiring Student
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
6,419
Location
Olympia Washington
Ride
'14 R3R, '02 Daytona 955i
Fair play to you for sorting the problem out. I'd say you guys were close to tearing your hair out!

At the risk of being cynical - is the problem really fixed, or just worked around (for now at least)?

My worry is, since you had the problem with the original throttle body assy inc TPS, and changed that assy out inc TPS, and the problem remained... that the issue is elsewhere?
Seems strange that not 1 but 2 TBs have the same issue when TPS & ISCV are set as per the manual.

When the engine is not running, what was the previous, and what is the current, primary TPS volts?

Reading comprehension is fundamental:

It shows the wrong way, and right way to adjust the idle control.
 

Valk21

Standard Bore
Joined
Apr 11, 2019
Messages
8
Location
Apalachin Ny
Ride
2006 classic
Over the last few months @Paul Bryant s bike has developed an odd idling issue we have been trying to resolve and its now time to ask everyone. On load it also feels "heavy"

The obvious has been tried, TPS ISCV rest and correct, MAP lines all good, new plugs, cleaned air filters, throttles are balanced even replaced leads and checked all coils. We reloaded the Hanso Tune ECU map from my bike to is. Reset the PCV to Hansos base map and removed all trims from the AT. Tested ISCM cycles fine.

This made no difference.

Yesterday we moved my POD300 onto his bike and put my bike on the computer linked to to the PCV to make some comparisons as my bikes running sweet.

At idle his bike is running 11:1AFR that drops to 10:1 and splutters (obviously too rich to burn clean). My bike AFR was 13:1 idle and dropped to 12:1 but was clean. The rich AFR was also consisten with the squirt of unburnt fuel coming out exhaust. We used the POD300 to lean out the fuel on the PCV till we got similar AFR to my bike and it idled better.

However we also noticed the Pauls bike was idling at around 650 to 700 rpm. Tune ECU we then set to run at 1100rpm at above 70degC (as a test) loaded map and it still stayed around 700rpm.

Reset TPS and ISCV, this made no difference it jumped for a few seconds to around 1000 then settled back to 700. After the reset and idle setting increase I manually tweaked the ICSM nut to increase the RPM but it simply cycled back to 700. Its also quite unstable and trying to stall out.

I think if we can sort the idle setting we'll have the problem licked.

What sets the bikes idle settings?, thought it was the temp settings on Tune ECU (works on my bike). I recall reading a post (possible by @warp9.9) that No.1 cylinder has an idle screw that can effect the bike idling and when balancing you only adjust 2&3? but I'd stand corrected on that. Could this be the issue and do we need to tweak this?
Had idle problem also. Would creep up to 1800 rpm after bike warmed up.dealer replaced tps runs fine now.
 

Similar threads

Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks some useful and important features of R3Owners. For the best possible site experience please take a moment to disable your AdBlocker for R3Owners.Net.

I've Disabled AdBlock