A little perplexed and curious.

Just back from a weekend away with an assortment of bikes with the usual stories to tell but had an experience that has left me wondering.
I was following a gen 2 hayabusa through undulating back country roads at reasonable speed when I entered a left hand sweeper with about a 10deg incline. The busa was 50 to 100m ahead and as I cut through the apex my peg feelers were dragging at about 100kmh and I shifted to fourth and opened the throttle to close the gap.
It was then that the rear tyre lost traction and stepped out to the right by about half a meter, I changed up to fifth at this point pulled her back on line. The back tyre is an exedra max at about 50% of its life. I’m not sure if the road temp played a part but it was probably about 40deg C.

The bike has a ramair fitted with standard headers and I’m considering performance headers with lush cams to boost hp in 2020.

I’m curious how others manage the balance between traction and hp.
Is it as simple as throttle control or do you get used to spinning up the back tyre in the twisties?

Pete said:

Just back from a weekend away with an assortment of bikes with the usual stories to tell but had an experience that has left me wondering.
I was following a gen 2 hayabusa through undulating back country roads at reasonable speed when I entered a left hand sweeper with about a 10deg incline. The busa was 50 to 100m ahead and as I cut through the apex my peg feelers were dragging at about 100kmh and I shifted to fourth and opened the throttle to close the gap.
It was then that the rear tyre lost traction and stepped out to the right by about half a meter, I changed up to fifth at this point pulled her back on line. The back tyre is an exedra max at about 50% of its life. I’m not sure if the road temp played a part but it was probably about 40deg C.

The bike has a ramair fitted with standard headers and I’m considering performance headers with lush cams to boost hp in 2020.

I’m curious how others manage the balance between traction and hp.
Is it as simple as throttle control or do you get used to spinning up the back tyre in the twisties?

Click to expand...

Ahhh! So many 'Limits' which do vary individually and in symphony due to innumerable factors that prevent 100% surety. It only takes an big oil spot or leaking diesel or trapped slop-over from filling released by road bumps to be encountered at a moment that torque or power exceeded available traction etc. etc.

IF it was an oil spot/drip/ slop or similar cause of a loss of traction (like a polished worn surface, patch of a different road mix or truck tire wear point), it is possible that without that instant of extra torque when the spot was encountered nothing may have happened. Unless you can repeat it in similar general road conditions it may be simply a unhappy mix of circumstances and not due to your machine or tires.

I USED to ride a FZ750 5 valver in 1988 and took it around Tasmania with my rear brake gglowing cherry red most of the time and I enjoyed power sliding while keeping a pretty heavy foot on the rear brake. An FZ750 would still slaughter a rocket on twisties. I am no hero but it is a LOT easier to control power sliding when high revs and much less torque!

If you want to learn what MAY be possible you need to explore the track, but then realise that track conditions and guarantees are not found 'in the wild' but that the track discovered 'limits' can be utilised occasionally.

Unfortunately riding anywhere near the limit on backroads regularly is a life limiter, but exhilarating and weight is weight and once upset there is a lot of mass and force vectors to get back under control.

What are you running on the front?. Standard suspension? - are you a "big" fella? - You can very easily run out of clearance on an R3. Not helped by it's long wheelbase and lowish C of G. I've never heard of anybody overheating an E-Max but that too is possible.

I can usually only break traction in roundabouts - 4th? - impressed.

barbagris said:

What are you running on the front?. Standard suspension? - are you a "big" fella? - You can very easily run out of clearance on an R3. Not helped by it's long wheelbase and lowish C of G. I've never heard of anybody overheating an E-Max but that too is possible.

I can usually only break traction in roundabouts - 4th? - impressed.

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@Pete has a very well set up and tuned Roadster with Progressive front and Wilber rears from memory and rides with Mitzzy regularly and they press on pretty hard on the twisties.

The busa was 50 to 100m ahead and as I cut through the apex my peg feelers were dragging at about 100kmh and I shifted to fourth and opened the throttle to close the gap.

You were at the Apex and correct me if I am wrong you downshifted to fourth and opened the throttle?
most possible cause of losing traction was your engine speed when you downshifted and opened the big boy up, higher revs faster turning rear wheel, in a lean angle makes the old arse pucker does it not
engine speed did not match road speed, as the great Jackie Stewart said never get back on the throttle coming out of a turn until you know you will not let it off
Last but not least slowdown and enter the turn with a speed that will let you increase throughout the turn---a smooth steady rider will outperform a fast erratic rider any day(not saying you are a bad rider)

With a raw bike like the R3, throttle control is the answer as long as no other factors are in the equation. I personnaly prefer the bikes without all the computer neutering "aids" (okay, I do accept ABS but that does affect my engine delivery). Road debris, oil or other fluids, small critters all have a negative affect on tire friction especially in a curve. Throttle and speed control maybe be the answer in most loose situations.

Now about your title of the thread, I had my first perplexed and curious moment when in my teens, my girlfriend's mom started flirting with me. But that tale is for another time...

Boog said:

With a raw bike like the R3, throttle control is the answer as long as no other factors are in the equation. I personnaly prefer the bikes without all the computer neutering "aids" (okay, I do accept ABS but that does affect my engine delivery). Road debris, oil or other fluids, small critters all have a negative affect on tire friction especially in a curve. Throttle and speed control maybe be the answer in most loose situations.

Now about your title of the thread, I had my first perplexed and curious moment when in my teens, my girlfriend's mom started flirting with me. But that tale is for another time...

Click to expand...

Forget about Pete lets get the story about your girlfriends Mum to the front.

@Pete Another point I overlooked is when you mention dragging the peg feelers. It does not sound as if you lifted the back tire by rotating on any hard points. I do try hard to keep in my that there is a point of no return once the back tire goes airborne at speed in a curve.
A co-worker back in 2010 lost her husband on a CVO Electraglide this way. When his back tire came back down, the bike bucked him off, (high-side) and he was caught by a sturdy tree trunk. Not trying to be a downer here, just that there is a point where we all accept a certain amount of risk and knowing how to mitigate that risk by riding style and experience is our best hope to come out of a potential mishap.

@scot in exile I'll just say for now that mom was friendlier than the girlfriend was...

come on Boog..let's stay off topic and hear some more..

Many factors could’ve been involved, but I would say you unloaded the suspension during that shift and just slightly lightened up the rear tire in addition to the gyroscopic and torque forces that were then induced when you revved up the engine.