opening up the clutch

rckt3

On the tail of the dragon!
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
78
Location
Sudbury, Ontario
Ride
2005 rocket 3
Hey guys not sure if this is the right forum to post this, I'm about to inspect the needle bearing on the clutch lift arm, (I'm getting a noise from that area when I shift and on start up) I found this utube video while doing some research. the guy did a pretty good job, really helped to know what to expect when I open mine up.
 

warp9.9

Pocałuj mnie w dupę
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
11,066
Location
Forest City Illinois
Ride
07 Rocket
Hey guys not sure if this is the right forum to post this, I'm about to inspect the needle bearing on the clutch lift arm, (I'm getting a noise from that area when I shift and on start up) I found this utube video while doing some research. the guy did a pretty good job, really helped to know what to expect when I open mine up.
Yes it's a good video. And Triumph seemed to put the older style clutch in his even though it was a 2008 Classic. The good thing is it has the identical lifter piece and needle bearings that yours has.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

rckt3

On the tail of the dragon!
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
78
Location
Sudbury, Ontario
Ride
2005 rocket 3
Yes its a good video. And Triumph seemed to put the older style clutch in his even though it was a 2008 classic. The good thing is it has the identical lifter piece and needle bearings that yours has.
Ya I noticed that right away also, I'm going to put the upgrade kit in, stronger lift piece and roller bearing.
 

warp9.9

Pocałuj mnie w dupę
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
11,066
Location
Forest City Illinois
Ride
07 Rocket
I also notice that the manual does not show the wave washer...
Ya I never saw a manual that was totally right but then I have not seen a Rocket without a Wavy washer (which if one would take the time to measure the clutch out you would find is useless like the extra shim they added in the touring Roadster age). It's just something to rattle on the lifter piece. When you look at it neither one will stay centered on the lifter piece input shaft as there is a groove making the clearance even more. I have been looking into this recently for @hoopla who has a 2017 with what he describes as a rattle in the clutch.

On both styles I believe the concept was for the wavy washer to hold the lifter piece forward against the bearings in the pressure plate while keeping off the front of the input shaft for oil flow. In fact I think the idea was in the older style and as they changed lifter pieces they did not realize they were taking away or massively reducing the face on the lifter piece that meets the wavy washer. Keep in mind the groove on both versions make the washer ID sloppy.

First below, is the old style lifter piece and you can see how much clearance is between the washer ID and the lifter shaft OD. Of course this style had a nice thrust face on it for the washer to hit as it used the needle bearings in the pressure plate.

20151104_053647_resized.jpg


Over the years they changed the lifter piece a few times. At first the flange was reduced as they went to a roller bearing in the pressure plate (note from what I have been able to figure out and measure they both use the same pressure plate just bored different for each style of bearing). Anyway, as the lifter piece changed the head grew which in my opinion was a good thing.

2009_1031lifterpieces0010.JPG


2006 bottom old style; top is the present one used as far as I can tell.

I think this was good as the head used up more surface contact area in the lifter shaft verses the older ones.

First to keep with the sequence above is the newer lifter piece in the lifter shaft -- note the area it fits into.

2009_10312lifterpieces0006.JPG



Now the older style which will also fit like yours:

2009_10312lifterpieces0007.JPG


One thing I noticed is another part that Triumph called a spacer or a shim which is just a 14 mm washer added to help rattle in the under cut groove which I believe is what a lot of people hear now days in the new ones and I also think its about as useful as a **** full of cold water.

P8180024.JPG


P8180026.JPG



Anyway, why have the washer is a good question as it does take up space and might make the wavy washer spring some, decreasing end thrust slop. But also decreases the amount of maximum clutch wear. One thing for sure is with the id being large for a 14 mm bolt, it is good and sloppy over the groove area and will not run concentric on the shaft but definitely should rattle a bunch. So other than rattle and possibly losing some wear amount from the fibers, I see no reason for it to be there. They just should have increased the shoulder thickness of the lifter piece. And if they want to use it and get rid of some of the slop, then they should change the groves on the lifter piece from radially to longitudinal then the grooves would still supply oil yet not have a small groove diameter for the washer the flop around on. On the plus side, other than rattling some I do not see it as detrimental, just useless.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ottenwulf

.020 Over
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
17
Location
Mt Tambourine Queensland Australia
Ride
2008 Rocket III Standard
Ya I never seen a manual that was totally right but then I have not seen a Rocket without a Wavy washer. (which if one would take the time to measure the clutch out you would find is useless like the extra shim they added in the touring Roadster age. Its just something to rattle on the lifter piece. When you look at it neither one will stay centered on the lifter piece input shaft as there is a groove making the clearance even more. I have been looking into this recently for @hoopla who has a 2017 with what he describes as a rattle in the clutch.
on both styles I believe the concept was for the wavy washer to hold the lifter piece forward against the bearings in the pressure plate while keeping off the front of the input shaft for oil flow. In fact I think the idea was in the older style and as they changed lifter pieces they did not realize they were taking away or massively reducing the face on the lifter piece that meets the wavy washer keep in mind the grove on both make the washer ID sloppy.
first below is the old style lifter piece and you can see how much clearance is between the washer ID and the lifter shaft OD. of course this style had a nice thrust face on it for the washer to hit as it used the needle bearings in the pressure plate.

View attachment 48996

over the years they changed the lifter piece a few times at first the flange was reduced as they went to a roller bearing in the pressure plate. (note from what I have been able to figure out and measure they both use the same pressure plate just bored different for each style of bearing. anyway as the lifter piece changed the head grew which in my opinion was a good thing

View attachment 48997

2006 bottom old style top is the present one used as far as I can tell.

I think this was good as the head used up more surface contact area in the lifter shaft verses the older ones.
first to keep with the sequence above is the newer lifter piece in the lifter shaft. note the area it fits into.

View attachment 48998

now the older style which will also fit like yours

View attachment 48999

one thing I noticed is another part that Triumph called a spacer or a shim which is just a 14 mm washer added to help rattle in the under cut groove which I believe is what a lot of people hear now days in the new ones and I also think its about as useful as a **** full of cold water.

View attachment 49000

View attachment 49001


anyway why the washer good question as it does take up space and might make the wavy washer spring some decreasing end thrust slop. But also decreases the amount of maximum clutch wear. One thing for sure is with the id being for a 14 mm bolt is is good and sloppy over the groove area and will not run concentric on the shaft but definitely should rattle a bunch. So other then rattle and possibly loosing some wear amount from the fibers I see no reason for it to be there they just should have increase the shoulder thickness of the lifter piece. And if the want to use it and get rid of some of the slop then they should change the groves on the lifter piece from radially to longitudinal then the grooves would still supply oil yet not have a small groove diameter for the washer the flop around on. On the plus side other then rattling some I do not see it as detrimental just useless.



Having recently replaced a broken detent spring and installing a Barnett clutch on my 08 RIII your logic combined with your seemingly bottomless depth of Rocket knowledge just cleared up a few things that left me pondering. Huge thank you for so freely sharing all your experience here because your advice and pics made replacing the broken spring a breeze. Only thing is I can't help thinking the replacement spring looked even more flimsy and prone to snapping apart than the two bits of spring I fished out.
 

rckt3

On the tail of the dragon!
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
78
Location
Sudbury, Ontario
Ride
2005 rocket 3
Ya I never seen a manual that was totally right but then I have not seen a Rocket without a Wavy washer. (which if one would take the time to measure the clutch out you would find is useless like the extra shim they added in the touring Roadster age. Its just something to rattle on the lifter piece. When you look at it neither one will stay centered on the lifter piece input shaft as there is a groove making the clearance even more. I have been looking into this recently for @hoopla who has a 2017 with what he describes as a rattle in the clutch.
on both styles I believe the concept was for the wavy washer to hold the lifter piece forward against the bearings in the pressure plate while keeping off the front of the input shaft for oil flow. In fact I think the idea was in the older style and as they changed lifter pieces they did not realize they were taking away or massively reducing the face on the lifter piece that meets the wavy washer keep in mind the grove on both make the washer ID sloppy.
first below is the old style lifter piece and you can see how much clearance is between the washer ID and the lifter shaft OD. of course this style had a nice thrust face on it for the washer to hit as it used the needle bearings in the pressure plate.

View attachment 48996

over the years they changed the lifter piece a few times at first the flange was reduced as they went to a roller bearing in the pressure plate. (note from what I have been able to figure out and measure they both use the same pressure plate just bored different for each style of bearing. anyway as the lifter piece changed the head grew which in my opinion was a good thing

View attachment 48997

2006 bottom old style top is the present one used as far as I can tell.

I think this was good as the head used up more surface contact area in the lifter shaft verses the older ones.
first to keep with the sequence above is the newer lifter piece in the lifter shaft. note the area it fits into.

View attachment 48998

now the older style which will also fit like yours

View attachment 48999

one thing I noticed is another part that Triumph called a spacer or a shim which is just a 14 mm washer added to help rattle in the under cut groove which I believe is what a lot of people hear now days in the new ones and I also think its about as useful as a **** full of cold water.

View attachment 49000

View attachment 49001


anyway why the washer good question as it does take up space and might make the wavy washer spring some decreasing end thrust slop. But also decreases the amount of maximum clutch wear. One thing for sure is with the id being for a 14 mm bolt is is good and sloppy over the groove area and will not run concentric on the shaft but definitely should rattle a bunch. So other then rattle and possibly loosing some wear amount from the fibers I see no reason for it to be there they just should have increase the shoulder thickness of the lifter piece. And if the want to use it and get rid of some of the slop then they should change the groves on the lifter piece from radially to longitudinal then the grooves would still supply oil yet not have a small groove diameter for the washer the flop around on. On the plus side other then rattling some I do not see it as detrimental just useless.
Awesome info warp! Thx a bunch, just took the rad off and about to dive into it.
 

rckt3

On the tail of the dragon!
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
78
Location
Sudbury, Ontario
Ride
2005 rocket 3
IMG_1029.JPG
IMG_1031.JPG
IMG_1032.JPG
Awesome info warp! Thx a bunch, just took the rad off and about to dive into it.
Well,,,,my 05 doesn't have the wavy washer, it is as shown in the manual, the lifter shaft is showing signs of wear and the needle bearings are to small to really see any wear but I still suspect they are the origin of the noise I'm hearing.
 

Attachments

Similar threads

Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks some useful and important features of R3Owners. For the best possible site experience please take a moment to disable your AdBlocker for R3Owners.Net.

I've Disabled AdBlock