New tuning prices with TuneECU!!!

Pig9r said:

Does TuneEcu have the feature where PCIII maps can be imported?

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Yes. Most of the TuneEdit features have been duplicated in TuneECU - arranged slightly differently.



However, realize that both TuneECU and TuneEdit both import PC3 maps exactly the same way, by writing them directly into the main fuel offset for the F (TPS) tables - the fuel % table. However, PC3 cell numbers are not always an exact percentage (far from it in fact), and this can make them translate poorly at times. And if the F_L Switch point is set at stock change over points, the L tables will not be correct for use at low rpm/load.

This is just like those using ECUeditor to map the ECU in 2002-current Suzuki Hayabusas and converting the fueling from a PC3/PC5 map into the ECU - some things can be lost in translation, and the bike doesn't run the same.

If you know how the PC3 operates, you can understand how this can be an issue and how to correct it.

Power Commander 101:
The PC3 intercepts the injector on-time signal between the ECU and the injector. It allows you to add or subtract injector on-time based on TPS positions and engine speed with the PC software. This means that it alters mapping for both MAP (L) tables and TPS (F) tables from the ECU. All it sees is injector on-time, and doesn't care how it is determined in the ECU. If you import the PC3 map, you can miss a great deal if the L tables are set at stock change over points - as high as 35% TPS at 3500 rpm. ANd the numbers in the PC3 table is not a direct coorelation to TuneEdit/TuneECU tables.

If you have enabled and altered the PC "accelerator pump" feature, you can really screw up trying to translate the map into TuneECU or TuneEdit. This acts to add an offset table to the fueling from a PC3. It adds or subtracts fuel when the throttle is opened more, and does so over a given time period in order to allow for changes in acceleration compensation globally over the entire map. If the mapping from a PC3 uses this, it gets lost when you translate it to TuneEdit and TuneECU.

Map a bike with a PC3, import the map into TuneEdit or TuneECU, and test it. You can learn a lot.

These are all things many don't seem to know about. It is not hard to correct - if you know that it happens, where/when it happens, and why it happens.

Likely more than you wanted to know, definitely more than you asked, but I hope this helps.

-Wayne

I read it twice can I get a discount

Wayne,
Have you ever done any tuning with the Dobeck Generation 3.5?
Not only can you add fuel or subtract it at different throttle positions,
idle, cruise, WOT, etc,
but change the switch point time durations.
I'm still trying to get mine perfect.,
and haven't got it quite right yet,
is the reason I'm asking.
I like it better than my PC3,
nothing to download (or lose),
just plug it in and get it right.
I'm still working on that last part.
Take care,
skip

Skip,
Yes I have used the Techlusion 3.5 units. They are OK.
They are still a piggyback unit that intercepts the injector on-time and allows you adjust it in various ways. They just do so manually - without a software interface required.


Mark Dobeck started Dynojet (three owners ago - when the V-Max first came out), and his first units were some of the very first units used to adjust fuel injected bikes. We jumped on these quickly, and they worked pretty well on those first EFI engines. The newest versions have come a long way. He also makes units for other companies like Vance & Hines, Two Bros., etc.

The two guys that originally did the electronic and software work for Mark Dobeck, went on to work for Marc Salvisburg at Factory Pro on his early TEKA 2 units. The TEKA 4 units are similar to other piggy-back units, with a bit more resolution at low throttle positions.

Bazzaz also makes a piggy-back unit, as well. Some prefer these to Power Commanders. I find the software a bit clunky - especially if you turn the bike off and leave the software running.

Microtec makes a few different piggy-back units too - as well as aftermarket ECUs.

I can make a long list of other units I have used over the years, as well as some new ones that have come on the market in the last couple of years.


Today, I am not a fan of piggy-back units - especially if you have the option to tune directly in the ECU. If there is no other option, then I use them. But they are 20 year old technology with slightly more memory and faster chip speeds, and the industry is changing... finally.

On many of todays bike engines, we are seeing a transition to using multiple injectors on each cylinder - this is a good thing. However, you need two piggy-back units to control these different sets of injectors. Some injector sets are staged to come in at higher rpm, some OEMs transition from lower injectors to higher injectors at higher rpm. These different injection strategies require different tuning strategies. Some that is not well done with piggy-back units.

In some cases, you can install a unit on a bike, and they alter the fueling slightly - even with completely zeroed settings. This is just a side-effect of them being in place and intercepting the injector signal. Then there are times when they don't always work as they should. Most units only last 3-5 years before they start having issues. I have seen them last longer, and I have seen them not work right out of the box.

As you modify engines further from stock, these piggy-back units become less and less able to cope with the required changes. For this reason, many racers use OEM or aftermarket race ECUs. And we are finally seeing more and more interface software for the stock ECUs. This benefits racer and street riders alike.

In my opinion, you are much better served with software interfacing directly with the ECU that allows you to alter many things that are not controlled with a piggy-back unit. The hard part, is finding someone that will tune the bike with anything other than a piggy-back controller - the software is less simple, and not alway easy to learn what does what. But it is not hard either.

The major motorcycle dyno company has a death grip on the motorcycle tuning market selling piggy-back units. They are not about to get behind anything that cuts into their bottom line. As a result, dyno owners and operators are on their own learning to use other tuning solutions. A few of us have been racing down this road for a long time. We do what we can to help the rest get up to speed - to no benefit of our own. Likely a stupid thing to do.

xhdskip said:

Heck,
for a second there,
I thought I'd fallen through a wormhole into bizzaroland or somethin' Wayne.
I'd sure like to make a trip to Birmingham and get mine done, but finances are tough right now,
as I'm still paying uncle obamma for all the illegals hitchin' a ride on our backs right now.
It was tough BEFORE your price increase.
But this marxist socialist game obammas runnin',
turning our capitalist nation into a socialist one makes it tougher.
Ya know, spreadin' the wealth around an all.
HEY,
Maybe I'm eligible for some funding.
Rocket funding,,
now there's an idea.
Naw, probably not,
I'm white and got a job.....

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Bro you need to consider sobering up first and than tuning up; "And not necessarily in that order!

@geno pretty old thread don't you think?