New Development

[speedfrk]

Ok I'm starting to wonder if this bike is cursed. To date since buying my R3 with only 13,xxx miles on it I've had to have the head gasket replaced, it now has vibration(listed in another thread), and the latest development is a ticking noise coming from the engine that is there under all throttle conditions. When you blip the throttle either off the bike, or when you have it backed up to a wall (like my garage door) you can smell raw gas and the bike feels like it is down on power a bit. The previous owner who bought it new hit every one of his maintenance marks according to Triumph's schedule. In fact he was early on the last one due to selling the bike, so therefore the 20,000 mile service is due at around 18,000 miles and the bike currently has 17,6xx on the odometer. Could it be that it already needs a tune up, or is it something else? I'll be calling my dealer later this morning to discuss it with Jerry the head mechanic and probably schedule to take it in. I'm trying to keep the faith, but so far this bike seems to have a lot of issues. I can only say that with my Honda the only time it was ever in the shop was to have it dyno tuned after I'd made an upgrade.

 

[warp9.9]

If this is the same mechaninc that has always worked on it it will be hard to admit if he made a mistake. If not then If the cams were lifted to change a shim in a bucket or two I would suspect the timing chain is off a tooth or maybe two. This is a comin mistake when reassembling the motor. In fact Gus from Baxters in IA had told me he has seen them come in new from the factory off a tooth. one tooth the bike will run good but will be down on power. two and you loose which could get normal. I would ask him the sheck the timing between the crankshaft and the cams using the triumph tool. This isually is because to much slack in the chain is left whent he tensioner is put back on during the valve/cam clearance work. It is not something done on purpose it is simply a hard job and tedius to perform.

 

[tdragger]

Also, the gas smell can come from the banjo bolt under the tank. If the tank has been removed before, the re-installed bolt needs to be really snugged up or it may develop a very slow drip. Mine had that gas smell until I just by chance saw a drip forming on the fuel line. There are 2 crush washers that may need replacement.

 

[warp9.9]

Also one of the inherent problem of the rocket is the low tension coil lead loosening up and loose contact not supplying the coil with proper juice which could lead to a inefficient burn.
below is a picture of the number two cylinder coil showing the two low tension leads and of course so you don't forget which wire goes on which spade terminal.



These get loose and vibrate which can cut down on voltage sent to the coil and signal when to fire. pull the leads and clean the spade terminals. apply Dialetric grease then take a set needle nose pliers and crimp/squeeze the wire connectors a little so they are tighter and then plug them back in. This might or might not be your problem but I garrantee eventually they will if you do not. the front coil is the hardes to get at as it has a plate on top of it just so someof the other wire connectors can clip to. my advice is to disguard it as it will always be in your way. This is just advice you can put it back just a easily. but just give it some thought as you are removing it to get to the front coil. The other two coils are easy to get at. Like I said it might not be your problem but if it has had the 10 and 20k check up I garantee they had to Pull them to get the cam cover off, which could have spread the connector helping it get loose. (Again unintentually) If the coil does not get enough energy supplied to it it will not fire the pugs as hot which means your fuel burn might not be complete thus smelling rich gas. just a Idea that I hope helps you out as if you have some mechanical ability and a camera to take picture as you take things apart you can save yourself a lot of money. most Triumph connectors only fit what they are supposed to except the turn signals and fog light wires. the key to getting the turn signals righ is one side will have red electric tape on it the other side will not. Make sure you hook th efan connector back up as it is the easiest to forget.

Hope this helps you.
Warp

 

[speedfrk]

I'll keep that in mind Warp and thank you for everyones input. According to my dealer the noise is being caused by the timing chain tensioner being currently located in transition between two pawls/rachets. This will give the engine a ticking/buzzing sound. It will go away when the tensioner reaches the next set of pawls/rachets. If it was to get too loud the tensioner could be forced to the next setting, but that would put added stress on the timing chain. As far as the wisp of a fuel smell well Jerry hooked up his laptop and said my rocket is operating well within parameters and even though he couldn't smell it he did say that my throttle bodies were just a tad out of sequence. I'm due for my 20,000 mile service within the next three months(based on average miles riden within a month) so Jerry said to leave the throttle bodies alone as it's included in the 20,000 mile service. I can relax and breath again. A guy at work keeps telling me that they have medication for what I have. I keep telling him that whenever I hear something I haven't heard before and I'm unaware of what it is I'd rather get on top of it than to wait for something to break down the road. Every time I've ever waited for some sound to develope into something later it always bit me in the you know what.

 

[warp9.9]

You need the Warp Aerospace Division Modified Cam Chain Tensioner

The bad thing about the Triumph tensioner especially if it is in between pawls is it could kick back and release jumping timing and crashing the valves against the pistons. I would hate to see that happen to you so I will add a picture or two to show you how to eliminate this problem. Remember this is for anti kick back not forced adjustment. You should screw the stud down to the bottom and the back it off about 1/2 to 3/4 turn insuring the stud does not move while double nutting the stud.

In the picture below you can see the original OEM center nut of the tensioner with the guide pin for the spring. Plus the modified center nut disassembled.


Below is just a better and close up picture



Below you see the assembled modification I made to the OEM center nut. I used a 1/4" X 20 TPI UNC bolt with the head cut off and ran the threads a bit further down with a die. (Stainless bolt) Fits in the spring as well as the original dowel pin



I cannot stress enough ho important it is to not use this to adjust the tensioner it is strictly to keep the tensiner from failing. I have offered to show Triumph how to eliminate this problem which also happens to every Triumph bike that uses the same particular tensioner I believe the 1050 engine uses it and they also fail on it.
Below is a picture of it mounted. IMO the acorn nut is nothing but for decoration if you have a lot of threads hanging out the center nut. It Should never be used as the lock nut as you will not be able to see and make sure the stud does not rotate from its set position. Remember we do not want it to put force on the tensioner just keep it from kicking back and cause catastrophic failure to the engine.

 

[Triple Trouble]

you could try putting the bike in gear with the engine not running and rock it backwards a couple of times. This transfers the slack to the tensioner side and can cause it to click over to the next tooth if it is close.

 

[warp9.9]

you could try putting the bike in gear with the engine not running and rock it backwards a couple of times. This transfers the slack to the tensioner side and can cause it to click over to the next tooth if it is close.

Darn right Paul that is a good possibility. It still does not make the tensioner any safer as to many have failed over time. the plus about my modification is you still can monitor the drop and install the spacer in the tensioner to return spring tension after it drops past 16 mm. My next project on Gracie will be a way to modify the end of the tensioner with a larger pad so it last longer before full extension and also a larger pad for the APE tensioner. The real mod will be a way to change it out without releasing tension on the chain or loosing timing. The idea of this will also include not removing th eradiator nor the clutch cover. only the fuel tank and cam cover along with the two side coils and a little wireing to accomplish the task. This make the timing chain last longer do to more adjustment length of the tensioner before its at full extension. (Which Gracie is just about there)

 

[speedfrk]

Shouldn't dealerships know about this? The first time this actually happened you would think even if Triumph didn't come up with a resolution that dealerships would have figured out to prevent the kickback from happening. I will run this by my dealership and see what they say. As far as the mod goes I'm a little confused, but I'll ask more in a bit. Thanks Warp for the heads up. I'll try the rocking in gear thing and see if that helps get to get the tensioner to move to the next position.

 

[warp9.9]

Shouldn't dealerships know about this? The first time this actually happened you would think even if Triumph didn't come up with a resolution that dealerships would have figured out to prevent the kickback from happening. I will run this by my dealership and see what they say. As far as the mod goes I'm a little confused, but I'll ask more in a bit. Thanks Warp for the heads up. I'll try the rocking in gear thing and see if that helps get to get the tensioner to move to the next position.

your right they should and probably know but won't admit it. It does not happen to all bikes so why make a big thing. Plus there are people that would try to use it to adjust the tensioner and its just a safety stop not a adjuster. My guess is thats the main reason why you do not see them out there other make of bikes have the same problem also. My mod is just for safety and piece of mind. It slike the update hit some needed it some did not. my 06 did my 05 did not at least yet and it has 37,000 miles on it.