STRIPES
\\\STRIPES/// going to the HD shop.
Am I missing something, or are you saying your rocket develops over 300hP?
20% Driveline Loss?
- Thread starter HellFire
- Start date
HellFire
Legend
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 4,518
I got the impression he's saying 350 at the wheel with probable 50 lost to driveline which would be a 400 horse power R3. How is that one possible? Is this blown nitro methane drag bike or something? I can see that it's possible, but at what cost? And why would you choose an R3 to do it when there are other more capable machines for that purpose out there?
warp9.9
Pocałuj mnie w dupę
350 at the wheel WITH 20% loss means 437.5 at the crankshaft. One Bad Ass Mother
Power-Tripp
Turbocharged
First, don't take OEM output numbers as anywhere near fact. And most dyno output numbers are even further from fact.
If you know what the injectors flow at specific pressures and duty cycles, as well as the head/cam flow capeability, or even the total weight and mph in the 1/4 mile, you have three fairly accurate ways to determine actual output at the crankshaft. This rarely comes close to what OEMs claim for output.
Next add in losses for gears (submerged and spray lubrication differ), chains, belts, etc. Despite what some dyno manufacturers claim, a coast down does not load the drivetrain anywhere close to an acceleration run.
Tires differ greatly in the way they absorb and transfer output to the ground though their sidewall design, and compound.
The way output is measured via static loading, controlled acceleration sweep, or inertia sweep (whatever rate it spins the dyno drum), all change the output of the engine, as well as how much rotational/inertial mass of components alters the output.
So now, you may start to see that what we think the bike actually makes, and what it actually produces, can be far from the same. The only way to know, is to test on the road or track. And if you are on a dyno, you can compare before and after differences in percentage, but even this has flaws, as some dynos vary more and more as output increases.
Some interesting reading on the subject, for those who haven't been in the industry since the 1980's, or spoken to Mark Dobeck in person:
The Story Behind the Dynojet Chassis Dyno - The Truth Meter - Hot Rod Magazine
I hope this helps.
If you know what the injectors flow at specific pressures and duty cycles, as well as the head/cam flow capeability, or even the total weight and mph in the 1/4 mile, you have three fairly accurate ways to determine actual output at the crankshaft. This rarely comes close to what OEMs claim for output.
Next add in losses for gears (submerged and spray lubrication differ), chains, belts, etc. Despite what some dyno manufacturers claim, a coast down does not load the drivetrain anywhere close to an acceleration run.
Tires differ greatly in the way they absorb and transfer output to the ground though their sidewall design, and compound.
The way output is measured via static loading, controlled acceleration sweep, or inertia sweep (whatever rate it spins the dyno drum), all change the output of the engine, as well as how much rotational/inertial mass of components alters the output.
So now, you may start to see that what we think the bike actually makes, and what it actually produces, can be far from the same. The only way to know, is to test on the road or track. And if you are on a dyno, you can compare before and after differences in percentage, but even this has flaws, as some dynos vary more and more as output increases.
Some interesting reading on the subject, for those who haven't been in the industry since the 1980's, or spoken to Mark Dobeck in person:
The Story Behind the Dynojet Chassis Dyno - The Truth Meter - Hot Rod Magazine
I hope this helps.
scot in exile
Living Legend
All the numbers we getcome from the triumph factory of course they are going to be on the high end, just like the fish that got away you always say it was twice the size right
The old rule of thumb used to be around 15% but riders with a lot more know how that old me will set us straight
The old rule of thumb used to be around 15% but riders with a lot more know how that old me will set us straight
Trirocket3
Turbocharged
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2005
- Messages
- 837
Almost 350hp @ 6300 & 300ftlb according to TTS dyno
200ftlb @ 2k rpm but that was before I teach it to rev
I guess losses to be around 20hp, but it's irrelevent
Hellfire
It is Super/Charged & modified engine.
What cost ? short answer quite a bit.
Why ? because I can & wanted too, so I did.
Why do it to an R3, because since 2004 my bike just keeps evolving
When I had 220hp it was not enough so next step had to be S/C
Engine is in bits again, for new crank/pistons/cams/intercooler & other stuff.
My bike is not everyones cup of tea, but I didn't do it for everyone, just me
Warps bike will be even more powerful than mine soon ask him why.
sorry to bring this one up again, but the hp loss is a constant and differs from bike to bike.
saying that it is a % of hp., would lead one to think that it changes when you increase your hp.
you can figure on a stock bike it could be from 10 to possibly 15 % and that is it.
(shaft drive)
any changes to your horse power will not have much if any effect on your drive train loss.
best way to figure it would be to get a good dyno run before making any changes to your bike. subtract your dyno #'s from "stated" manu. #'s and this will give you your power train loss.
work your bike over(hop it up... etc...) then get another dyno run.
add your power train loss to it and you will have your new crank shaft power
(provided of course that your dyno #s increased.)
if your new #s are lower then you took a left turn when you should have turned right. back up and try again.
(i think i got that to come out right.)
stv
saying that it is a % of hp., would lead one to think that it changes when you increase your hp.
you can figure on a stock bike it could be from 10 to possibly 15 % and that is it.
(shaft drive)
any changes to your horse power will not have much if any effect on your drive train loss.
best way to figure it would be to get a good dyno run before making any changes to your bike. subtract your dyno #'s from "stated" manu. #'s and this will give you your power train loss.
work your bike over(hop it up... etc...) then get another dyno run.
add your power train loss to it and you will have your new crank shaft power
(provided of course that your dyno #s increased.)
if your new #s are lower then you took a left turn when you should have turned right. back up and try again.
(i think i got that to come out right.
)stv
Sidecar Flip
Living Legend
Power don't mean squat. It's the ability to control the power and get it to the ground in the most efficient way.
Power is all about libido. Finesse is all about using it.
Parasitic loss is typically set at 20% as a benchmark. If there was no parasitic loss, the final drive would stay at ambient temperature constantly, your tire would last forever and the transmission (in the case) would be the oil cooler.
Like my friend with the Caddilac CTSV. He has 550 at the flywheel. He also has an account with Tireman.
Power is all about libido. Finesse is all about using it.
Parasitic loss is typically set at 20% as a benchmark. If there was no parasitic loss, the final drive would stay at ambient temperature constantly, your tire would last forever and the transmission (in the case) would be the oil cooler.
Like my friend with the Caddilac CTSV. He has 550 at the flywheel. He also has an account with Tireman.
alifordpictureman
Standard Bore
Driveline loss
I sure which I knew what the hell all of you are talking about. lol. You guys are awesome Teachers!
I do plan to learn.
I sure which I knew what the hell all of you are talking about. lol. You guys are awesome Teachers!
I do plan to learn.
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